Today on the Signorile Show

Florida Governor Charlie Crist, the Ken Mehlman of Sunshine State, has come out for a federal marriage amendment, banning gays from marrying, only to "clarify" by saying he meant only a amendment and he supports civil unions. How long will the media allow this charade to go on?

So much talk about Glenn Beck's rally in Washington and what looked more like the same old religious revival crowd then any newly configured conservative movement. We were told the Tea Party wasn't so into the old time religion, but all the God-talk was evident. And what is clearly a lot of white anxiety about black people was on display, as has been the case for a while now. We'll go through the speeches and take your call.

Guest / 3:30pm EST - Last week, Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum lost the GOP primary nomination to Rick Scott. Who is Rick Scott? Igor Volsky, health care researcher with the Center for American Progress joins us to talk about exactly who Rick Scott is.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Robin McGehee, co-founder of GetEQUAL, joins me this afternoon to talk about the direct actions group to push harder for ENDA with their "ENDA Summer" Campaign. She'll talk about what you can do to get involved.

Marking the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina we'll go back and listen to some clips from listeners on the Gulf Coast who called in with their stories, before, during and just after the tragedy struck.

What is President Obama and the Democrats running on this fall? As Americablog points out, young people aren't turning out it seems. And everyone else isn't getting a plan from the president on the economy, which is the issue everything will turn on. Are the Democrats in for a slaughter at the polls? We'll discuss.

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

Today on the Signorile Show

We'll take more of your calls and discuss the continued reaction and fallout of former RNC chairman Ken Mehlman's coming out as gay.

Guests / 3:30pm EST - After Judge Vaughn Walker made his decision that Prop8 was unconstitutional, the Right attacked Walker, saying he was bias because he's an openly gay man. The press went along with this claim, whenever they discussed Judge Walker and his historic ruling. But Judge Walker never has said publicly that he is openly gay. These claims of the judges sexuality have been said to have originated from a San Francisco Chronicle article, which said that it was an "open secret." We'll speak with Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross, who had written that article in February and their thoughts on the misrepresentation.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Stephanie Miller, daughter of William Miller, Barry Goldwater's running mate in the 1964 run of the Republicans and progressive radio show host, recently came out publicly as a lesbian. We'll speak with her about her coming out and why she decided to do it now.

Glenn Beck is planning a rally on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luthur King's historic civil rights march, and claims he's going to "relaim civil rights." It has many civil rights leaders outraged. We'll get into it.

We didn't get to do them yesterday, but we'll read Listener Survey's today. Have you taken it yet?

And it's Friday, so we'll be giving away out "Angel, Turkey, Gassie and Climax of the Week!"

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

CNN Discussion Last Night on Mehlman

The Ken Mehlman Self-Outing

We discussed this in the entire last hour of the show yesterday as the news broke and we'll be focusing on it much on today's show. At least from our calls and from statements I've been reading from LGBT leaders and bloggers, there's lots of anger over former RNC chair and Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman's ugly and cruel work against LGBT rights and his seemingly unrepentant desire to now move on. And there's also the pragmatic understanding among some that Mehlman can now be very helpful and certainly it puts more pressure on President Obama and the Democrats. Mehlman has not really taken responsibility for his involvement in horrendous antigay campaigns in the few interviews I've read, including with The Advocate's Kerry Eleveld, either claiming he tried to temper the attack or just wasn't emotionally equipped yet to deal with them, something that seems hard to believe.

What is outrageous about the media coverage right now is the whitewash of history and the downplaying of Mehlman's role in making laws against us. The media covered up Mehlman's hypocrisy for years -- while they had no problem outing Judge Walker as gay -- and now have a vested interest in making it seem like he wasn't so involved in antigay efforts. The New York Times even claims he "personally" avoided social issues (they actually added the word "personally" last night) which is just ridiculous. This man, as RNC chair and as campaign manager for George W. Bush in 2004, okayed all of the antigay ads that ran in states across the country, as Mike Rogers points out in detail.

Mehlman's coming out may be good thing -- it splits Republicans further, isolates the homophobes even more at a time when other prominent conservatives are jumping from the antigay ship and, as I said, puts pressure on the Democrats and President Obama. But it's important that history not be obscured, no matter what Mehlman's motives are and whether or not he intends to now do much good working for the cause. And there must be accountability for the actions of people who do the kind of work that harmed gay people -- perhaps even caused young LGBT people to commit suicide, believing all the hate and bile that was spewed in these campaigns -- and so far, Mehlman hasn't been the least bit apologetic or contrite, while the media and some gay leaders are giving him a pass.

We'll get into all of the issues on the today's show and take calls.

Today on the Signorile Show

At 3:30 ET the Rev. Jane Spahr joins me to talk about the Presbyterian Church trial she is being put through for having married 16 gay and lesbian couples in California when marriage was legal there briefly in 2008.

At 4:30 ET Jane Brox, author of Brilliant: The Evolution of Artificial Light

And lots of other topics, just don't have time to jot them down today!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

Today on the Signorile Show

General James Conway, who leads the Marines, is threatening that if "don't ask, don't tell" is repealed, he will try to offer straight marines who are "very religious" the option of having separate living quarters. As the vote on DADT comes in the Senate, is this something a right-wing Republican senator made add as an amendment? The battle over gays serving openly rages on. We'll discuss!

Disneyland has told a Muslim woman she cannot wear a headscarf to work in a restaurant and created a bonnet for her to wear. She has refused and says her freedom of religion is being trampled. We'll put the question to you.

On Salon.com, a lesbian talks about the pressure to have a baby now that so many gays and lesbians are doing so, something she never had to think about before. It's an interesting discussion, and we'll take calls on your own experiences.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - James Dickerson, author of Inside America's Concentration Camps: Two Centuries of Internment and Torture, joins us this afternoon to talk about his latest book chronicling the long road of xenophobia and racism we've seen in this country and the fear that played out.

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

WND's Farah: "My Eyes Have Been Opened"

Yesterday on the show I interviewed World Net Daily's Joseph Farah about his battle with Ann Coulter over her speaking at the gay Republican group GoProud's "Homocon" event in September.

Farah eventually admitted that the left was right all along about Coulter and her lies ("My eyes have been opened") and had to acknowledge that his comrades on the right -- from Coulter and Laura Bush to Glenn Beck and Elizabeth Hassellbeck -- are now shifting on support for gays ( he said conservatives always "give up.") He also seemed a little bewildered about Prop 8 and its future when I suggested that the people might well vote for marriage soon as polls are shifting across the country. The right's mantra of course has been that the people were usurped by the judges, but now would they accept it if people voted for marriage? No, he said, but clearly realizing he was contradicting himself. At that point, he turned to Jesus. Listen in to some highlights from the interview.

Today on the Signorile Show

The New York Times reports on a "groundswell" of support in the polls on marriage equality, as we've been discussing on the show for weeks now. The President of the United States, however, is far behind and has a confused and not very credible position. The New Republic looks at a President Obama's timeline of positions on marriage, while the publications executive editor calls the president's current position on marriage "increasingly absurd" and a "disgrace." Are we now seeing a groundswell of support even among pundits, who see the president as completely duplicitous on the issue? We'll get into it and take your calls.

More discussion of Laura Schlessinger's "first amendment" rights to say the N-word, and just why the whole argument is bogus.

Some conservatives jumped on the polling that suggested almost 20% of Americans believe the president is a Muslim by claiming it's true! The Rev. Franklin Graham said Obama was born a Muslim While Pat Boone railed about the "mosque at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue."

Guest / 3:30pm EST - Last week, the Pentagon sent to the spouses of current military servicemembers a survey about "family readiness" when the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy is repealed. Alexander Nicolson, executive director of Servicemembers United, joins us this afternoon to talk about this survey.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Ann Coulter has been uninvited by Joseph Farah of World Net Daily to be a speaker at their "Taking Back America" Conference next month because she had accepted an invitation from GOProud, the gay Republican group, to be a speaker at their event. But Coulter has now said that she wasn't even scheduled to be a speaker in the first place at WND's event! We'll talk to Joseph Farah about the fight between Ann Coulter and him this afternoon.

A judge has ruled against the Georgia college student who claimed her religious rights were being violated by Augusta State University, a public institution, which she said forced her to accept homosexuality in order to complete the counselor education program. We'll get into the case.

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

HRC Removes Target, Best Buy From Buyer's Guide

This afternoon the Human Rights Campaign did the right thing and removed Target and Best Buy from their Equality Buying 2010 buyer's guide. This morning my interview with HRC's Fred Sainz had been posted on many web sites. Glad to see HRC removing these companies from their guide, as there need to be consequences for Target's, and Best Buy's, actions. Wrote HRC's Michael Cole in a statement which he sent me:

Because we understand the impact of leaving Target and Best Buy on the various products associated with the Buyer’s Guide, both companies will soon be removed from it.HRC will not encourage people to shop at either store and believes that consumers should make their own decisions after careful consideration of all of the information available to them.

Today on the Signorile Show

Howard Dean has continued to defend his argument that the backers of the Islamic Center near ground zero should "compromise and move the site, even as his own group seemed to rebuke him. In interviews with both Glenn Greenwald and Keith Olbermann he tried to lay out his case as both men pointed to the double standards. We'll go through it on the show and get your thoughts as the controversy over this building continues to reverberate. Dean has always been a progressive who championed the left of the Democratic Party, so his stand is disillusioning. What do you think is behind Dean's comments? Is it inevitable that it will be moved?

Sarah Palin continues to defend Laura Schlessinger, while Laura talks about her "gay and black friends" and the woman who made the call to her show has gone public. We'll get into it and take your calls.

On Wednesday I talked with the Human Rights Campaign's Fred Sainz about the group's response to Target and the boycott of the company. It became clear that HRC is still telling people to shop at Target. We'll open it up to you and ask for your thoughts in hour two. UPDATE: Early this afternoon HRC announced it would remove Target from its buying guide. Kudos to them!

Guest: At 4:30 ET I'll speak with Paul Greenberg, author of Four Fish: The Future of the Last Wild Food.

It's Friday, find out who the "Angel, Turkey, Gassie and Climax of the Week" will be!

All these stories and so much more, today on The Michelangelo Signorile Show!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

HRC: Shop at Target

It may sound crazy, but not only is the Human Rights Campaign refraining from joining the boycott against Target; it is still actively telling LGBT people through its Buying for Equality 2010 buyer's guide (for which the group has an iPhone app) that they should spend their hard-earned cash at Target, something which was confirmed by Fred Sainz of HRC when I had him on the show on Wednesday (audio of interview below). And that's because Target is still scoring a 100% on HRC's Corporate Equality Index -- a measure of workplace practices toward LGBT people -- and HRC tells LGBT people to shop till they drop at these high-scoring "equality-friendly" businesses.

Let me first say it's great to see HRC speak forcefully about Target's $150,000 political donation to a group that gave money to an antigay candidate and Target's refusal to now match that donation with one to a pro-gay cause or candidate. HRC's Joe Solmonese said in a statement after talks broke down,"If their initial contribution was a slap in the face, their refusal to make it right is a punch in the gut and that’s not something that we will soon forget."

Tough words, and I applaud them. But what exactly is Target's punishment now for the gut punch HRC will not soon forget? HRC announced in response to Target's refusal to "make it right" that it would now donate $150,000 to a pro-gay Democrat challenging the antigay Republican whom Target's money went to in the Minnesota gubernatorial race. I'm glad to see HRC helping local activists to defeat homophobes in elections around the country, as the group has commendably done in the past.

But how exactly is this a punishment for Target? I would hope, after all, that HRC would be helping out in the election in Minnesota, where the stakes are high for LGBT people, whether or not Target donated to an antigay candidate.

I posed the question of ramifications for Target to Fred Sainz on the show:

Signorile: My question is, how is the $150,000 that you’re donating...a punishment to Target?...What are you doing exactly to Target?...Are you joining the boycott? Moveon.org is calling for a boycott.Is HRC telling people they shouldn’t shop at Target?

Sainz: No, the organization doesn’t have an official position on the boycott. We think that consumers need to make their own decisions and that each person has an awful lot of choices today...And certainly this will inform consumers’ decisions on where they should make their purchases...

----

Signorile:...The [Corporate] Equality Index is a position on the boycott, because the reason you give the equality index is to tell people where to shop...

Sainz: No, that’s not true.

Signorile:...and what companies they should support...

Sainz: No, no, that's not true. The Corporate Equality Index is a measure of the workplace practices of companies. It was started as a guide of what the best employers are for LGBT people...It is not meant to be a statement on a company’s wholistic behavior. It is rather a measurement of the workplace practices of a company. That’s really–-

Signorile: HRC does tell people to shop at equality-friendly businesses, even has an app that is devoted to that.

Sainz: That is true.

Signorile: Okay, so the equality-friendly businesses are those that score high on the Corporate Equality Index.

Sainz: That is true…

Signorile: So right now, at this moment, Target still has a 100, and that means that’s a good place to shop.

Sainz went on to again explain how complicated it supposedly is to change the Corporate Equality Index criteria (something he told me a week earlier when I had him on the show) and how the group is trying to “grapple” with the new changes since the Supreme Court decision in Citizens United and that they don’t want to make a "knee-jerk" response and that they are working it through but in a "thoughtful” manner. That’s all well and good, but the boycott is now, and as it goes on, HRC (which, Sainz confirms, to HRC's credit, is no longer allowing Target to sponsor any of the group's fundraisers) is still telling people to shop at Target.

Listen in below.

UPDATE: Let me just add that the bigger problem here is HRC offering a "buyer's guide" at all. You're not an ad agency for corporations; you're a civil rights group. I know other groups do it, but it will always run into trouble. If you're going to do it you need to be able to quickly fix it, such as in a situation like this.

It's fine and good to list companies based on workplace practices and they should be letting LGBT people know what are the best companies to work for. But telling people to spend their money at these companies -- and then HRC taking donations from these companies, as they have done with Target -- puts your group in a bad position. It appears as if the reason for the buyer's guide is to get donations from the companies in return for sending LGBT consumers to them. And the reason HRC is now "grappling" and trying to figure out what to do is because they're worried about other companies in their index, some of which no doubt also give to antigay causes or candidates. If they remove Target they'll have to remove others. They shouldn't have been in this position -- or should be able to react quickly and change the buyer's guide immediately when a problem arises.

UPDATE II: Another thought: A simple solution for HRC, if it feels it wants to tell LGBT consumers where to shop, is to separate the Buyer's Guide from the Corporate Equality Index. For the buyers guide rate companies based on how they support the larger LGBT community and what donations they make to causes and candidates. And keep the Corporate Equality Index separate, as a rating of workplace practices.


UPDATE III: HRC has done the right thing this afternoon and taken Target -- and Best Buy -- off of its buyer's guide. Kudos to them!

Today on the Signorile Show

In light of new poll that shows that almost 20% of Americans now believe President Obama is a Muslim -- a big increase from last year -- I'll ask listeners how many of them believe it too. With all the calls we've received attacking the Islamic Center two blocks from ground zero, I'm sure our audience includes some who now believe the President is a Muslim too (even though the poll was done before the controversy). Why would the number increase? We'll go through it and take your calls.

Now Sarah Palin has come out for the woman who never was a doctor, Laura Schlessinger, tweeting " b thankful 4 her voice,America!" What's even more hilarious is that she tells Laura not to quit when that's exactly what Palin did! We'll get into it.

It's now all out war between Ann Coulter and WingNutDaily's Joseph Farah, who Coulter called a "media whore" because he dumped her from his web sites convention because she is the guest of honor at a party of the gay Republican group GoProud. Pass the popcorn!

What does it mean that the last combat troops have left Iraq? Did we win the war? Is it over? We'll take your calls.

Guest: 3:30 ET I'll speak with Dr. Heidi Cullen, author of The Weather of the Future: Heat Waves, Extreme Storms, and Other Scenes from a Climate-Changed Planet

4:30 ET Americablog's John Aravosis, who started his career as a web activist with the highly effective StopDrLaura.com ten years ago, joins me to talk about the campaign against the woman who never was a doctor and is now, finally, leaving radio, no doubt because she didn't want to again battle a campaign like the one Aravosis unleashed a decade ago.

Also, we'll read listener survey comments and take your calls!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

Today on the Signorile Show

"Doctor" Laura (who is no medical doctor of psychologist of any kind, but actually a phys. ed teacher) is now calling it quits, claiming her 1st amendment rights were violated. Okay, we'll have lots to say about this and take your calls.

Target has now rebuffed the Human Rights Campaign's urging the company to give an equal amount of money to a pro-gay cause as they did to antigay Republican candidate for governor. We'll speak with Fred Sainz of HRC about where the group's relationship with Target goes from here. 3:30 ET

The controversy over the Islamic center two blocks from Ground Zero continues as Republicans demonize American Muslims further. Yesterday there was lots of passion on the show -- and lots of calls from those opposed to the mosque. We'll report on the the latest and continue the discussion.

At 4:30 ET I'll interview Justin Spring, author of "Secret Historian: The Life and Times of Samuel Steward, Professor, Tatto Artist and Sexual Renegade," a fascinating look at an an interesting and little known but very influential figure in queer history.

Mary Cheney has donated 00 bucks to an anti-marriage Republican. And virulently antigay website World Net Daily has dumped Ann Coulter because she is speaking at a party of gay Republicans, who claim she's the the "right-wing Judy Garland." Okay, a lot to unpack here, and we'll do it!

All these stories and so much more, today on The Michelangelo Signorile Show!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

President Has "No Choice" But to Support Marriage Equality

Former Clinton advisor Richard Socarrides makes the point that President Obama has "no choice" but to support marriage for gays and lesbians:

Support for equal benefits, but not for equal status — a gay "separate but equal" rule — is contrary to what Obama stands for, both as a person and as a symbol of expanding freedoms and opportunities. Continuing on this course will lose him and his fellow Democrats the support and enthusiasm of a large block of his base voters.

But can President Obama, who once supported gay marriage, only to oppose it now, change his position again? The answer is yes — and he in fact has no choice.

People understand that most public officials who now support gay marriage once opposed it. It wasn’t until after they left office that Bill Clinton and Al Gore (and, most recently, Laura Bush) said that they favored marriage equality. As Nate Silver recently wrote on his blog FiveThirtyEight.com: “Does anyone really believe, in a country that is becoming close to evenly divided on gay marriage, that Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Kerry are among the half who oppose it?“

When even Elizabeth Hassellbeck is ahead of the president, you know that he's looking awfully feeble.

Stay on Marriages Indefinitely

My take on the 9th Circuit ruling late yesterday: If you follow the timeline of the 9th Circuit appeal of Judge Walker's ruling, even with the fast-tracking of the case and the strict deadlines for getting papers in, it's likely we won't see a ruling from the 9th Circuit until the beginning of 2011.

Whatever happens there it will no doubt go to the Supreme Court, which would most certainly keep a stay in place even if the 9th Circuit affirms Judge Walker's ruling. And then it's with the Supreme Court for much of next year -- a faster process than many had predicted (some were thinking we'd get a SCOTUS decision in 3 to 5 years), but slower than we'd hoped in just the past week. Of course, it's possible that the 9th Circuit rules fairly quickly -- in a matter of days after closing arguments in early December -- that the Prop 8 proponents have no standing in the case, and the Supreme Court could agree fairly quickly. In that scenario we'd see marriages in California happening much more quickly, but Prop 8 would not be the case that would take marriage equality to the rest of the country via the Supreme Court. Just my guessing.We'll get into it all on the show today and speak with legal experts to get the full deal.

Today on the Signorile Show

The controversy over the mosque at Ground Zero only got uglier over the weekend after President Obama commendably came out for the first amendment and defended the right to building the mosque. Wingnuts went into overdrive, accusing him of everything from helping the terrorists to flip-flopping when he clarified his remarks. It's pretty scary when George W. Bush is seen, in retrospect, as having been one of the adults in the Republican Party. We'll get into it all and take your calls.

What will happen today or tomorrow or maybe even Wednesday regarding Judge Walker's decision to only extend the stay overturning Prop 8 until Wednesday? Will the 9th Circuit of Appeals overrule him or will the marriages begin again? Will proponents appeal to the Supreme Court? We'll go through all the possibilities and take your calls.

Guest / 3:30pm EST - The National Organization for Marriage took its Summer for Marriage Tour to Washington DC this weekend. Many activists were in the crowd at the counter protest, including 10 year old Will Phillips. Joe Sudbay of AmericaBLOG was there as we'll and joins us this afternoon to talk about it.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Sarah Schulman joins me this afternoon to talk about her latest film, The Owls, a "funny, mysterious and humane generational anthem starring some of the most popular underground artists in Lesbian Cinema."

Did fear of Gov. Christie replacing them influence three New Jersey Supreme Court Justices to delcline case on marriage equality? This looks like something that could become a big story.

The man at the center of the controversy over Target's donations to candidates, Republican Tom Emmer, now refuses to comment on Minnesota's marriage amendment. Very interesting.

All these stories and so much more, today on The Michelangelo Signorile Show!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

No Money to the DNC

We cannot just keep feeding the people who hurt us. There are plenty of Democrats who are pro-equality and who deserve your support to the individual campaigns. But the Democratic National Committee should not get a dime of your money. Why? I responded in my column in the Advocate to a piece written by DNC Treasurer Andy Tobias in which he implored LGBT people to give to the Democratic National Committee this year:

Tobias’s screed cannot hide just how disappointing our “fierce advocate” and his toothless party have been for the past two years. A few drops have been wrung out into the glass, including passage of a long-overdue hate-crimes bill that had been kicked around in Congress since the 1990s and an uncertain compromise on repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” as gay men and lesbians continue to be ejected from the military.

Real progress? The Employment Non-Discrimination Act is dead in the water this session. The Domestic Partner Benefits and Obligations Act, a bill that would give gay federal workers spousal benefits, and which Congress has promised a vote on since June 2009, is no closer to the president’s pen. Meanwhile, the White House continues to aggressively defend the Defense of Marriage Act and is expected to appeal a July decision handed down by a Nixon-appointed federal judge who ruled that a critical portion of the federal ban on marriage equality is unconstitutional. President Barack Obama has said he opposes the law but by all accounts has not lifted a finger to push for the legislative repeal that he promised would be a priority if he were elected.

And then there was the president's pitiful response to the landmark Prop 8 decision. A spokesperson responded to The Advocate's Kerry Eleveld that ,"The President has spoken out in opposition to Proposition 8 because it is divisive and discriminatory," without any congratulations let alone elation of any kind. Then White House advisor David Axelrod headed onto TV to push the message that the president doesn't support marriage for gays and lesbians, reaching out to homophobes on a day when he should have been reaching out to us. It was yet another nasty slap in the face.

Read the whole piece and let me know your thoughts.

Today on the Signorile Show

We'll find out today whether gay and lesbian couples in California will be able to marry again, or if Judge Walker decided to keep the stay of his landmark decision in place while the Prop 8 proponents appeal.

Perhaps influenced by the reasoned and detailed decision by Judge Walker, and the media coverage that showed how well he'd done his job, a majority of Americans, 52%, for the first time believe that marriage should be a constitutional right for gays and lesbians. This could be a tipping point in public support and popular opinion.

Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, the highly decorated Air Force pilot, has filed suit to stop his discharge under "don't ask, don't tell,"a last ditch effort to save his career.


Guest: Jennifer Pizer from Lambda Legal joins us 3:30 ET to talk about Judge Walker's decision, whichever way it goes.

Prop 8 Stay Ruling Tomorrow

Looks like it will be another busy day on the show tomorrow: Judge Walker will be announcing his decision on whether the marriages of gay and lesbian couples begin immediately or if his decision is stayed pending appeal. The news will come down between noon and 3 ET, so either just before the show or during our first hour.

Today on the Signorile Show

Target's troubles with the LGBT community have taken a turn for the worse as The Awl revealed this week that the CEO and other top executives have been giving to antigay causes and candidates for quite some time.

There was some encouraging electoral success yesterday in primaries around the country, for LGBT candidates and also for the Democrats and Obama-backed candidates heading into the mid-term elections. And for Republicans, another tea party backed, anti-immigrant candidate. We'll get into it all.

As flight attendant Steven Slater continues to be heralded as an icon among stressed workers, we'll take more of your calls on his actions, the airline, the passenger, and what should happen to him.

Guest / 3:30pm EST - Sam Kashner, journalist and co-author of Furious Love: Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Burton and the Marriage of the Century, joins us this afternoon to talk about the legendary romance between the two and the access he and co-author Nancy Schoenberger had to the couples personal materials.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Yesterday, the NOM Summer of Marriage Tour continued, making a stop in Raleigh, NC. In attendance on the other side of the "ten's of NOM supporters," Pam Spaulding of Pam's House Blend. She joins us today to talk about the protest and what she's calling NOM's "Fail-O-Rama."

Florida attorney general Bill McCollum, running for governor, now says he doesn't have "a recollection" of what he said when he said gays should not be allowed to adopt because "“I really do not think that we should have homosexuals guiding our children." We'll get into it.

These stories and so much more, today on The Michelangelo Signorile Show!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

Today on the Signorile Show

In an ugly -- and pretty stupid -- tirade White House press secretary Robert Gibbs has attacked the "professional left" for criticizing the president. Lots of anger and bafflement about it among progressives, including LGBT activists, and much to talk about.

Antigay, nasty right-wing talk show host Greg Gutfeld says he wants to open a gay bar next to the mosque at ground zero. So, he hates Muslims more than gays and will be pro-gay for a moment just to provoke? Is that it? We'll open this one up for discussion and get your thoughts.

An interesting story about Bradley Manning, the whistleblower in the Wikileaks case who is now charged with a crime for leaking the information. The New York Times reports about his struggles with being gay and how that made him feel isolated. How does that affect this case and your thinking on it? We'll go over it today.

Guest / 3:30pm EST - A lot has been said about the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution as of late. Leaders in the GOP want to repeal the birthright parts of it as a way to combat illegal immigration. Prop8 was found to be unconstitutional because of it. Joining us to help understand a little more about the 14th Amendment, Elizabeth Wydra, Constitutional Accountability Center's Chief Counsel.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - West Point Cadet Katherine Miller is a junior at the prestigious military academy. She is ninth in her class. She is also a lesbian. Because of that, she has submitted a letter of resignation from West Point because she is "unwilling to suppress an entire portion of [her] identity any longer because it has taken a significant personal, mental, and social toll on [her] and detrimentally affected [her] professional development." She joins us this afternoon to talk about her resignation.

FL attorney general and GOP candidate for governor Bill McCollum: "I really do not think that we should have homosexuals guiding our children." The latest smear from the man who brought George "rentboy" Rekers in as an expert witness against gay adoption.

And Levi Johnston is running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Surely that is a stepping stone to run for the vice presidency. And it's all part of a reality show, lucky us!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

The Moment Prop 8 was Overturned

It was an exhilarating day last Wednesday, waiting for the Prop 8 decision to come down and then reporting it all live on the show at around 4:30 ET. That hour,which encompassed a few minutes before and a while after Judge Walker's ruling -- and that moment we got it confirmed -- was pretty exciting for me and for many listeners. It really was privilege to do it all live on the show. I've shortened it down to this 8 minute or so clip. Check it out.

How Media Smeared Judge Walker

This is a piece I meant to post yesterday (actually did link to it in the show rundown) which I wrote on Huffington Post:

The way that the sexual orientation of Judge Vaughn Walker -- the federal judge who overturned Proposition 8 last week -- has been targeted and exploited by proponents of Prop 8 is not only an example of the ugly smear tactics of the theocratic thugs who call themselves Christians; it's a testament to how easily the media is manipulated by the right into doing things about which editors and reporters claim to be staunchly opposed.

Check out the full piece and let me know your thoughts.

On Today's Signorile Show

Why did Judge Walker get outed but right-wing antigay homophobes get protection from the media?

Ted Olson wipes the floor with Chris Wallace debating Prop 8.

David Boies wipes the floor with Tony Perkins debating Prop 8.

Guest / 3:30pm EST - We are slowly approaching the midterms this November. Today, Florida Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson joins us to talk about the issues that are currently at the forefront and what to expect from the elections this November.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Can the proponents of Prop 8 appeal Judge Walkers decision? We'll speak to New York Law School professor Arthur Leonard this afternoon.

More mosque projects are facing objections across the country. What is going on? We'll take your calls.

The non-story over Michelle Obama's trip to Spain. How the right whipped up supposed outrage, right out of the anti-Clinton playbook.

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

Pastor Terry Jones: Why I'm Burning Qu'rans on 9/11

Pastor Terry Jones of Dove World Outreach Center first gained notoriety when he held "No Homo Mayor" protests (and had another one last week) in Gainesville, FL, battling against the election of Craig Lowe who became that city's first openly gay mayor this year.

Now he has announced "International Burn a Qu'ran Day" in which he and his followers will be burning the holy book of Islam on the ninth anniversary of 9/11. I brought him on the show on Friday to discuss Islam, Christianity and homosexuality. Watch the video as he gets tripped up about the Old Testament:

Signorile: The bigger threats in this country are from Christians who want to see the Bible enacted as the law of the land...There are people who would like to see this country enact a Christianity that is very violent. If you read the Bible it has many things that are in the Koran. It has, you know, that people should be stoned, and people should be killed.

Jones: You’re taking about Old Testament and we no longer adhere to that because of Jesus…

Signorile: What do you think about what Muslims think about homosexuality?

Jones: I do not agree that homosexuals should be stoned. I believe that homosexuality is a sin that leads to hell and they need to repent.

Signorile: Now why do you believe that?

Jones: Because we believe it is very clear in the Bible.

Signorile: Where?

Jones: It’s in Romans, it’s in the Old Testament.

Signorile: I thought we don’t use the Old Testament.

Jones: Well, we…um.

Signorile: No, we only [use it] when it’s about homosexuality.

Saturday Back Talk

Here are a bunch of listener survey comments, some of which I read on the show this week. If you're listener to the show and haven't taken the survey please scroll down and click through on the right. Thanks!


Parachute, CO (Sirius)
Living in rural America limits the news that I have access to. The information that Mr Signorile offers is super and a necessity to really understand what is going on the in the nation and the world. Thank you for being a big part of my day.

Royal Oak, MI (Sirius)
I would like to hear less of this show. While I tend to agree with most of what Michelangelo says, the way he says it makes me want to go all Republican. It feels like he sensationalizes things, he takes things out of context, blows things up. We need to fight gay rights, but we aren't going to get anywhere by alienating and demonizing the opposition.

Palm Springs, CA (XM)
I was pleasantly surprised by Jack in Arizona's apology for not supporting gay rights in the past. He is an honorable person. I enjoy your show! Thank you!

Portsmouth, RI (Sirius)
I was driven to complete the survey today primarily to plead with you: Please, please, please no more 'debates.' I admire your skills as an interviewer and value the careful questions you pose and the thoughtful responses they elicit. I changed the station three times today during the discussion of the Manchester Hyatt boycott, and each time that I tried to resume listening, I heard antagonistic, hostile exchanges. If I want to listen to people shriek at one another and accuse the other of 'whoring themselves out' there are plenty of shows taking that approach to the news. (None of which I watch.) By all means, engage various viewpoints. But please continue to play to your own strengths and do it one-on-one.

Vancouver, WA (XM)
Surprise Me. There are many Transsexuals who do not see themselves as Transgenders. Please try to find guests the have that view. One person that I would recommend is Susan (Suzy) Cook. She is a long time Post OP woman born TS, who was also a early feminist.

Indianapolis, IN (XM)
Mike, I wish you weren't so dismissive of callers who disagree with you. You always go out of your way to prove that you are fair, but even the way you argue with those who call you dismissive is dismissive. In fact, you're probably already formulating a way to dismiss this feedback right now! The way we can tell is if trying to be "balanced" you'll say someone else's view is their opinion while implying that they are wrong, but your opposing opinion is not presented as 'opinion' but fact. To color all of this, let me say that it's not so much the words you actually say, but more so the tonality which does in fact communicate how you are looking down upon anyone who disagrees with you. You're welcome in advance (since honest feedback is a gift!)

Las Vegas, NV (Sirius)
I love your show. Being from Nevada,I thought it was funny when I visited your website there was a pro Sharon Angle ad! (adsbygoogle) Keep up the good work. You are always a joy to listen to.

Flagstaff, AZ (Sirius)
Michael, you are such a bleeding heart liberal. Nothing wrong with liberal, but you don't have to bleed all over the microphone.We live in a time/place where we as a country need to be more selective about who we allow to enter the country. Time was that folks who emigrated here WANTED to embrace America. Nowadays, they want to set up an enclave where they can practice their language/culture/practices from their home country. They aren't interested in assimilating into American culture. To this I say, "stay home". You also have a way of cutting off callers who don't agree with you. By the way, I think you're HOT. :)

Hartford, CT (Sirius)
What some of the people are saying in the survey is accurate: David can be a real bitch when he answers the phone. I don't know if working at a gay station has rubbed off on him but the queeny bitchy attitude he has at times when answering the phone is frustrating. I have actually stopped calling because of his attitude. I can understand and forgive him when he may need to be short with people but I can't excuse bitchiness. He can be sarcastic at times when answering the phone. If I wanted attitude like that I would just go to the local store and get it from one of the working high school kids. Love the show, hate the call screener ;-(

Wichita, KS (Sirius)
I like the show, but often people complain about not being able to get through. Maybe you could take something from Frank's show, and have a segment of about 20 minutes, where you let anyone call in about ANY topic. For the call, you might find a new topic that you hadn't thought of talking about, and those callers that get through, would be able to say, that they weren't SCREENED out of making a call to talk to you. It could happen once a week, or even once a month. Otherwise, love the show, and yes DAVID does a great job.

Naples, FL (Sirius)
I've been listening to your show for a year and it's the only political information I listen to. I don't get into political debates, but if I'm at a social event and someone is getting on my nerve because they don't know what the hell they're talking about, I just say "Michaelangelo Signorile said such an such". OMG! I become everyone's hero. I love using your information to make me sound smart. I would also like to thank David for convincing me to tell my story on air. It was the first time I have ever called any talk show and he was so caring and made me feel very comfortable (although I was a hot mess).

Carpinteria, CA (Sirius)
You could cut down on the monologues a little. If anyone thinks Obama is supportive of the gay community they need to get back to reality. Repeal of don't ask don't tell will not occur under his watch. The Pentagon is laying the ground work to show that it can't be done this is being orchestrated by Sec. Gates and the "good old boys" at the top.

Owensboro, KY (Sirius)
I have to admit I didn't really like the show at first but my ex convinced me to try again. I don"t always agree with your views but do find you very informative. I am an older lesbian and grew up in a small town and therefore am not as comfortable about outing people although you do give convincing arguments on why we should.

Grand Island, NE (Sirius)
I love the show so much. I couldn't make the listener meet-up in DC but can't wait until you have another one. I would love to meet you and some of the iconic callers like 'Jay in New Haven'. Thank you so much for what you do.

Today on the Signorile Show

John McCain had a tantrum again, in what looks to be the first shot fired in the Republican war on "don't ask, don't tell" repeal as the Defense Authorization Bill comes up for a vote. LGBT groups are warning people to be ready for a big fight. On the heels of the euphoria over the Prop 8 win, it's time to focus on the battle over DADT. We'll get into it today.


So much more to look at the Prop 8 ruling, including those now determined to smear Judge Walker as a biased gay judge. And why did the media so easily claim that he is gay -- without his saying it himself -- while they claim to be against outing? Lots of hypocrisy to expose here.

Ann Coulter will headline an event for the gay Republican group GoProud. Who next? Anita Bryant? Phyllis Schlafly?

Guest / 3:30pm EST - We've been talking a lot about the boycott of the chain retailer Target. Target says that while they did send out money to those campaigns, their support for the LGBT community is "unwavering." But has the company's support always been unwavering? Abe Sauer of The Awl joins me to talk about Target's past donations and how they tie into Prop 8.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - Pastor Terry Jones of the Evangelical Dove World Outreach Center joins us this afternoon to talk of his plans for September 11th, by holding a "Burn The Koran Day." We'll also speak with him about his "No Homo Mayor" campaign against the openly gay mayoral candidate of Gainesville, Florida, Craig Lowe.

Did you know there's a mosque at the Pentagon --inside the building? Yes, and it was opened shortly after 9/11! Why haven't conservatives ever complained about it as they're now doing with regard to the "ground zero" mosque?

Amid reports of a deal between Google and Verizon we'll discuss the future of net neutrality, how it will affect you what will happen if the FCC doesn't step in.

Larry Kramer has unleashed on Barbra Streisand...again. What about this time? We'll talk.

We'll go through some listener surveys this afternoon!

And who will be your Angel, Turkey, Gassie and Climax of the Week?

All these stories and so much more, today on The Michelangelo Signorile Show!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!
Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

John McCain Foams at the Mouth

John McCain erupted in an antigay tirade on the floor of the Senate yesterday threatening to block "don't ask, don't tell" from being passed in the Defense Authorization Bill.

More from Netroots Nation

At Netroots Nation in Las Vegas I interviewed bloggers and good friends (of mine, and of the show) Pam Spaulding of PamsHouseBlend and Joe Sudbay of Americablog.

I spoke with both of them, in separate interviews, about the LGBT organizing at Netroots. But mostly, we discussed the Democrats, the mid-term elections and the Obama administration on LGBT rights and the anger and disappointment in the community. The interviews are particularly relevant today as the Prop 8 decision comes down and we once again wait to see if the president responds. Listen in.

Interview with Pam Spaulding



Interview with Joe Sudbay (two segments)

Prop 8 Decision Today

The much anticipated decision from federal judge Vaughn Walker on the challenge to Proposition 8 will be announced today. The decision is expected between 1 and 3 Pacific Time (between 4 and 6 Eastern Time), and we will be live on the air when the decision is announced. So listen in and please call in with your thoughts toll-free, 866 305 6887, and join the discussion. Also, give me your thoughts here as well and on the Facebook fan group page and we will be reading them live on air.

Rallies are being planned all across the country, a response from the grass roots no matter what the decision is. It's a big day, and lots to talk about.

Today on the Signorile Show

The hypocrites rage on: Antigay pastor Tom Brock -- who was revealed to be in a conversion therapy group himself -- is now is back at work, admitting to same-sex attraction but saying he's a "virgin" to gay sex.

We took lots of calls yesterday regarding attempts to stop the mosque at Ground Zero from being built. The prominent Jewish group, Anti-Defamation League, now under criticism for coming out against the project, has offered further defense of its alignment with bigots (and with Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich and the GOP mob), while the NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission has given the ok to the project. We'll go into it more and take many more calls we're sure.

Republicans are actually talking about repealing the 14th Amendment to keep the children of immigrants from becoming citizens, distorting what Congress intended when the amendment was passed. Time for a history lesson!

Guests / 3:30pm EST - Last week, we talked about whether or not people in the LGBT community should be boycotting Target, and now Best Buy, for their giving money to anti-gay political candidates. Joe Mirabella, a contributor with the Bilerico Project, thinks that the boycott, while well intended, won't work. David Reid, activist and guest blogger on LGBT POV, says there should be direct action against anything standing in the way of LGBT rights, including boycotts. They'll face off on the show in a debate on the issue this afternoon.

Guest / 4:30pm EST - A major, and exhaustive report was released yesterday on the loss of Prop 8 in California. The report shows why we lost during that election and what we can learn from it. Joining us to discuss the report, David Fleischer, author of The Prop 8 Report.

Sharon Angle believes the press should only ask her the questions she wants to answer.

And ABC's "Modern Family" is promising a wedding, and maybe even a kiss -- someday -- for its gay couple. But you'll get Nathan Lane sooner. We'll take your calls on the lack of PDAs and whether it bothers you or you see it as realistic.

These stories and more, today on The Michelangelo Signorile Show!

And, don't forget, you can follow me on Twitter and Facebook!

Listen to The Michelangelo Signorile Show weekdays live from 2-6 pm ET on Sirius XM's OutQ: Sirius 109, XM 98 and on the Sirius XM iPhone app. Not a subscriber? Not a problem! Listen online any time with a free seven-day pass or, if you have an iPhone or Blackberry, go to the app store and download Sirius XM for free, for a 7-day trial, and listen on your phone.

Roy Ashburn: I Don't Believe in Outing

On Friday I interviewed California State Senator Roy Ashburn, the Republican legislator who voted antigay for his entire career and who was revealed as a closeted gay man in March after a DUI arrest (audio of full interview is below). He has since apologized to the LGBT community for his antigay voting record. I was glad to have him on the show. The interview was informative and illuminating. I look forward to having him back.

But, at least for now, I'm not very impressed.

I’m not sure that Roy Ashburn yet understands the damage he did, nor the damage that many closeted politicians are still doing. The responses from just about every caller to the show for an hour after the interview were even less generous than I’m being here. At best, Ashburn’s got a lot more growing to do. At worst, he’s still scamming, still thinking about his future and a career.

I came to the interview with an open mind. I read Ashburn’s apology on the Victory Fund website – a complete switch from his statements just weeks prior, standing by his antigay votes – and I applauded it. When someone offers what appears to be a heartfelt apology I think you have to give that person the benefit of the doubt. And so I did.

Interviewing Ashburn is important because he gives us a window into the closets of power, a way to get into the minds of those who vote antigay to cover for the fact they are gay themselves. I asked about his life since his exposure and his life before, and tried to get at what was in his head during his antigay votes.

He began with an apology --- for drunk driving. That was well and good, but it was odd that he didn’t follow it up with apology for his antigay votes, didn’t reiterate what he apparently had written in his op-ed piece. In fact, he didn’t seem to show much remorse for what he’d done and at one point he even tried to excuse his voting antigay by saying his votes never caused any pro-gay measure to be voted down since those measures all passed despite his voting against them.

Strangely, Ashburn says he never experienced self-loathing about his homosexuality. He never viewed his own homosexuality as bad or wrong. He says he never really struggled with it. He voted antigay solely as a career decision, not because of any problems he had with his own homosexuality. It was a cold answer to a question that could have connected him with other LGBT people. We all understand – and cut a lot of slack – to people who are personally tormented by homophobia. Perhaps it’s an honest answer – though it’s hard to imagine that someone like Ashburn didn't experiencing at least some internalized homophobia – but Ashburn depicts himself as someone totally together about his being gay but making calculated, self-interested decisions which harm people. It made me wonder about all the other issues he might have voted on simply out of calculated self-interest. And it makes me wonder about what he is doing now.

Ashburn seemed to split hairs on which antigay rallies he supported and attended. At one point, clarifying my error about a Prop 8 rally I thought he'd attended, he sought to downplay support for measures such as Prop 8. He said he never commented on Prop 8, and while that may technically be true he supported those promoting it and took their money. But more so, Ashburn came out full force for a 2005 Senate constitutional amendment defining marriage as "between a man and a woman," actually hosting a rally with the virulently antigay Rev. Lou Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition, as the star attraction in the press release, and said: "We need to preserve traditional values for the future of our children. Children must be raised with morals and principles." The statement is heinous, as it implies that gay and lesbian people are not moral or principled and that their being given civil rights will send a bad message to children.

The release clearly shows Ashburn headlining the event. And yet, in our interview, Ashburn just referred to this a "a different event" on a "different measure" from "years earlier" in correcting my mistake that he went to a Prop 8 rally, without describing the event, and seemed to portray himself as someone only having been tangentially supportive of such measures. (To his credit, however, he did bring up his having attacked an opponent at a public event for being pro-gay.)

The most telling topic we discussed, however, was outing. I’m sure from Ashburn’s perspective the interview seemed to be going well up until this point, which was at the very end of our interview. He’s a smooth talker. But on outing, he hit a bump. And it revealed much about his lack of remorse and perhaps even about his future career plans.

Ashburn gave no reason why he doesn’t “believe” in outing except to say he doesn’t. And that makes one wonder: How could he be truly sorry, how could he believe he harmed people, if he doesn’t believe he should have been stopped? This is particularly true since he expressed having no trauma about being gay. Outing him would thus not be doing much on a personal, psychological level. It would simply be exposing a lie about a politician, like any other story the media report on regarding politicians' deceptions.

It was at that point that Ashburn tried to make excuses for his antigay votes. He seems to think that his voting against gay rights had little consequence because his votes didn’t have an impact since all of the antigay measures he voted against passed anyway. But how could Ashburn not see that his positions on gay rights gave moral weight to homophobia, among other politicians and among the voting public, and surely ultimately helped convince some people to vote for Prop 8? He seemed not to accept that his antigay votes had influence in the political culture – something very important in a state that allows ballot initiatives for the majority to vote on minority rights -- regarding homosexuality:

“I don’t believe in outing people…I think you make a very good point, but I just don’t support the practice of…of...of…having people revealed against their wishes…I understand the argument and I respect the position you’re expressing but I just don’t believe in outing people ….I mean, in a way, the system is self-balancing. What you said, Mike, was that I had stood in the way, that I had stopped the advancement of gay rights from being enacted. That’s not true. The bills that I voted against passed, and they were signed into law. In no instance did my vote stop the advancement of any piece of legislation…”

The outing response may also reveal Ashburn’s intentions and aspirations. He did say early on that he wanted to pursue politics further. Support of outing is still not something many politicians will publicly express, Barney Frank's pro-outing position notwithstanding. And yet, in Ashburn’s case, any response except full support for exposing dangerous, antigay politicians seems disingenuous. At the very least, he needed to give a reason why he "believes" it's wrong, and he never did. Does he really think that the openly gay mayor of West Sacramento, Christopher Cabaldon, was wrong to out Ashburn on his Facebook page months before his arrest? And why?

My initial reaction at the end of the interview, which I expressed to Ashburn, was that he’d come far, but had a ways to go. But after thinking about it further and hearing from listeners, I’m not really sure he's come far at all. Perhaps he can do some good in the future, trying to change minds in the Republican Party, as he says he desires to do. But he first needs to dig deep and think further about these issues. You can listen to the full interview below.