The caller's supposition that people should be able to put whatever they want into their bodies is 110% bull crap. Should people be allowed to drive 55 MPH in a school zone while finishing their 5th Martini just as school is letting out? Is it okay for an airline pilot to finish their 5th Martini while flying a plane? What about a surgeon operating on a patient? Factories have all sorts of regulations about what people can wear as do businesses and schools. Failure to follow the rules can easily result in disciplinary measures up to and including termination. Businesses and organizations regularly update their rules, especially during times of crisis. A pandemic qualifies as a crisis.

I understand the desire to be able to do whatever one wants. However, when one lives in a community they sometimes have to behave in a way that isn't what they would choose in order to benefit the community. In the middle of a major drought if the community limits the frequency of how often one can water their lawn then one obeys the authorities. Yes they want to keep watering their lawns but if everybody does so nobody will have water to flush toilets, clean dishes and clothes or bathe. Those who don't follow the rules can be fined. During a gasoline shortage there can be gas rationing where one can only purchase gasoline on certain days of the week.

During major disasters people are ordered to stay in their homes, obey curfews and sometimes even evacuate. It is expected that they obey those orders and if they do not then there are consequences.

With regards to health it isn't unusual to require people who have a highly communicable disease be in quarantine, regardless of whether or not they want to be. It is also common for countries to prevent somebody with a disease from entering their country. I might be more likely to grant the caller a bit more empathy if the only person whose life was being put at risk was the individual's. However, people who refuse to be vaccinated put the lives at risk of everybody they come in contact including those is who unvaccinated as well as those of us who have been vaccinated at risk. Yes vaccinated people can get a breakthrough case and pass the virus on even if they don't show symptoms. Doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers who treat people with COVID-19 are putting their lives at risk and the lives of their family members at risk every day. It is one thing if they were risking their lives to treat a patient who becomes ill through happenstance. But if people would just be vaccinated the lives of these selfless doctors, nurses and others would be much safer.

For COVID-19 to be tackled, people need to be vaccinated and to follow other protocols issued by the experts. As science learns more about the virus it is good that recommendations are adjusted. That is a plus for science, not a drawback. Since the overwhelming majority of people being admitted to hospitals for COVID-19 are unvaccinated I wonder if the caller would be in favor of allowing the medical professionals to refuse treatment to the unvaccinated and focus treatment on those that followed their scientifically backed instructions. Perhaps the hospital staff could tell those with COVID-19 that show up unvaccinated that they are running out of room and are having to concentrate on patients who followed the COVID-19 advice of the expert scientists. They could then send unvaccinated patients who show up with COVID-19 to return home and contact FOX-News and other right-wing media for their COVID-19 medical treatment and advice.

Doctors and nurses at hospitals are exhausted and burned-out because of the continuous influx of COVID-19 patients, most of whom are unvaccinated. Many are considering leaving their profession and/or retiring early. I have heard folks cite statistics about people employed in healthcare not being vaccinated. As you said to the caller, the overwhelming majority unvaccinated healthcare employees are not physicians or nurses. They may work in kitchens at hospitals or in housekeeping, maintenance or accounting.

On June 11th (nearly 4 months ago) the American Medical Association released the following in a press release on vaccination rates amongst physicians:

"The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated."

On August 18th the results of a similar survey of nurses was released by the American Nursing Association:

"About 88 percent of surveyed U.S. nurses are vaccinated against COVID-19, or plan to be vaccinated, according to survey findings from the American Nurses Association published Aug. 18. The findings are based on responses from 4,912 U.S. nurses. The survey was administered between July 6-30, 2021."

It has been over 2 months since the nurses were surveyed and 4 or more months since the doctors were surveyed. Chances are that many of the unvaccinated have been vaccinated since the surveys were taken, especially with the hightened severity of the Delta Variant that resulted in more severe illness and a large jump in hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19.

Who do most people turn to when they or close family members are suffering from or on the verge of a severe medical crisis? Do they get and their medical advice from journalists, politicians biased by an agenda, clergy, neighbors, coworkers, people on the streets? Sure they might listen to those sources and maybe review any recommended resources. However, when push comes to shove they rely on the advice and recommendations their doctor and follow their council. How many doctors are telling their patients not to get vaccinated, not to wear masks, etc.? With 96% of doctors having been vaccinated by early June (and 45% of the 4% unvaccinated planning to be vaccinated) the answer is obviously next to none. I would bet that even the unvaccinated doctors would tell their patients to be vaccinated. It is likely that the tiny percent of unvaccinated doctors are unvaccinated because of a personal health condition that would make the vaccination unsuitable for them.

It is a waste of time for those of us who have been vaccinated (I have had both the two initial vaccinations as well as a booster) scream and yell and argue with the unvaccinated. Instead, ask them what they would do if they had cancer or a family member just had a heart attack or a stroke? Who would they seek out for help? Obviously, the answer would be to see their doctor or rush to a hospital emergency room. Unfortunately, COVID-19 does its damage unseen and the virus is spread to others unseen before a person realizes that they have it. Strongly recommend that people contact their physician's office for guidance on whether or not to be vaccinated and what other recommendations the medical professional has to offer. Doctors do a great deal of reading on the latest developments and keep current on the latest scientific findings on preventing and treating COVID-19 and other medical issues. If you trust your own doctor to treat you or refer you to a specialist physician if you have cancer, heart disease, diabetes, need surgery, etc. then you certainly should be able to trust their expert judgement on whether or not to be vaccinated against COVID-19!

Expand full comment

I’ve gotten so I push back pretty hard when I hear that “it doesn’t prevent you from getting it” line. Neither did the polio vaccine in a small amount of people, neither does any vaccination, none of them are 100%. Do they really not understand the concept that it greatly slows the spread and prevent society from having to pay for an ICU room for you if he gets it? How often does a gun fail at protecting somebody are they not running out and buying guns? Owning a gun greatly increases your chances of dying by a gun, getting the vaccination greatly increases your chances of not getting or dying from the virus.

I’m having to weed out employees now, one claims it’s a hoax, (not surprising he also is a flat earther) one claims if’s not really a vaccine, one claims, like this gentleman you had on, it doesn’t prevent anything, another is just Not going to listen to what he perceives as liberals telling him to do it. A couple others I don’t know what the exact reason is, but it’s probably a combination of what I’ve listed.

My father was in World War II he never discussed it when I was young, but when the movie The Big Red 1 came out (it was about the first infantry in World War II, my dad‘s infantry) he asked me to go watch it with him. After the movie he unloaded the horrors he had seen and how it missed him up. I can’t but help to listen to these people through his ears, what he never complained about was that he had to be vaccinated, to go to a war that he was drafted into.

I can only imagine what he would think today listening to these people whine about getting a vaccination and their “oh poor me” excuses.

We’ve become a pathetic nation in 60 years.

Expand full comment

Michelangelo, your patience was exemplary….cool in your statements of facts….don’t understand these people who ignore a global public health issues to argue selfish freedom of choice . Mandates are now proving to be the life line in slowing the onset of more deaths & major illnesses.

Expand full comment

Dear God the hilarious irony of a Trump supporter, who I'm betting is also an anti-abortion nutter, accusing Michaelangelo of judging what someone chooses to do with their own body is just... Whew!! 🤣

Expand full comment

I absolutely loved the way you handled this caller - you remained cool and calm and you stayed very informative - I really think you got him thinking! I need to take a lesson from this call because I would’ve ended up screaming at this person! And yes sometimes people just need to be taken down because of their ignorance and stupidity and you do that very well also!

Expand full comment

You were spot on here Michelangelo. Once again we have to hear from an uneducated person passing judgement on scientific fact. He misses out that in a healthcare setting, one does not and should not have the option to put their patients and others at risk. One in 5,000 out of 500+ million vaccinated sounds like pretty good odds to me. And it also reduces the severity of the disease and prevents death ~98% of the time. All in the name of owning the libs, clearly as MikeinSonoma says we have become a pathetic nation.

Expand full comment