Many have been blown away to see people close to them vote for Trump not once, but twice -- or switching over to him late in this election. An open thread here for discussion.
I haven't spoken with my father for about two years now. For someone who I never thought he had a racist bone in his body, he would constantly repost horrible right-wing memes on Facebook that were pretty much blatantly racist and usually easily disproven with two minutes of Internet research. He knows that my brother and I are staunch liberals, yet he'll repost things calling all Democrats church bombers and baby killers. In fact I think he knows the memes he reposts are full of lies, but he just doesn't care as long as they can "own the libs" or whatever. He always seemed accepting of me being gay so that's not the problem. But decades of watching Fox News and following right-wing media has turned him to despise and vilify Hillary Clinton, Obama and all Democrats. My brother occasionally still talks to him and as long as they don't get into politics, it's fine. I just can't go there yet. I'm too disappointed in my father for that, though he is getting older and I would like to patch things up.
Sadly for most Trump supporters, I don't see them ever facing reality again. And I can't think of a solution either. As much as we'd like to, we can't just turn off right-wing media. We can't force them to start telling the truth. It really is a cult, and how do you rescue millions of people who don't want to be rescued? When they think scientists, experts, higher education and even main stream media are part of the "liberal elite", that only leaves lowbrow news opinion shows, crackpots and fringe Internet websites as their only source of information. How can this decades-old shift away from education, facts and truth be turned around? No idea.
One last thought: there are conservative think-tanks that for decades have done long-term planning which has enacted gerrymandering, voter suppression tactics and more. Do we have any liberal think-tanks out there who can do some long-term strategizing? It seems that right-wing media always sets the tone and language of the debate, and we're always left defending ourselves and playing catch-up. It's about time we took the offensive for a change.
Kerry, thanks for a very thoughtful post.I'm really struck by the your description of your father as someone who you thought "never had a racist bone in his body." What is it that activates within people, something deep and unhidden, that suddenly allows them to express these views, support these views? More so, how did they seem not to previously have these beliefs? This is I think a major part of this -- bias that is deeply rooted but for many never, ever spoken, and thus believed to be free of it, surfaces. It shows the power of racism in this culture, how we're all raised within it and make choice not to act up and/or the either challenge ourselves or just suppress it. Then this Fox New indoctrination happen for those who are ripe for it. So part of the solution -- the heavier work -- is making sure people are ripe for it, and that's about changing society on a larger scale.
In terms of think tanks, Dems have been far behind but catching up, with orgs like the Center for American Progress. It's a bigger issue, re: conservative media and how people are conducive to a message. Democrats and progressives promoting free-thinking and are free-thinkers, questioning authority. We'll never have that blind loyalty to some sort of propaganda. And that's a good thing. But it does mean we have to educate people more.
I think all these points it's it's about education, getting people free college, expanding minds and thinking.
oh jeez i made so many typos here. I mean to say "make a choice not to act on it and/or to challenge ourselves" and then i mean to say the heavier work -- is making sure people are NOT ripe for it...
Alot of my friends who voted for trump in 2016 indicated to me that they were not voting for him in 2020 , but the damage was done because I warned them about what kind of person he was in 2015. The few that voted for him the 2nd time I have a real problem with and do not socialize with them anymore. Luckily my family votes democratic. Still very dejected that 73 million people voted for 45.
Amen Greg. It’s much easier to forgive 1st vote. The 2nd and millions more, was a gut punch of reality. It indicates something very dysfunctional about our culture, our society. Gut punch.
74 million voted for Trump because they have bought into the distorted reality peddled every day by conservative media. Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and all their imitators push an unending stream of lies, smears, and canards to millions of viewers day after day. Their target is Democrats. Sometimes they go off message and target blacks or Hispanics, but the primary focus of their hate mongering is the Democratic Party (which they intentionally mislabel the "Democrat" Party). They now have an army of misinformed Americans 74 million strong.
I refuse to associate with Trump supporters. My oath to the Constitution didn't end after my time in the military (protect the country from enemies, both foreign and domestic). Trump is an enemy of the state, and so are his supporters. I fully expect to be disowned by relatives who still support him. No loss to me, though.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you! Let's rejoice and be thankful that we have Biden and the amazing cabinet he is creating to look forward to. Also we will have someone in office who cares about human beings and will correctly respond to the pandemic. My heart aches for those with trump family members. I have it with my own brother. We have always been so close and he likes to bait me telling me that he is listening to Tucker on Fox. And my husband's side of the family is lost to me forever. I have told my children I will never ask them to fly and visit them again and they have my total permission to disengage as the rhetoric is not in line with what we support. The past 4 years and pandemic have led me conclude I can let some of these people go. Having said that with your spouse or child that is sooo complicated. Love to all of you beautiful souls this Thanksgiving!
My first post was lost? Anyway, I live in Sioux County, IA. I am from Seattle but have lived here for 16 years. Social media has brought to light that I am a Democrat in a sea of red. I work for a medical clinic as a housekeeper. I've come to find out the 20 doctors I work for are all Trump supporters. One gave me the Trump pitch/anti-Socialism pitch the other night. "Don't watch CNN or MSNBC." "Basement Joe" and the whole script they all follow. I am so upset now. I will never walk in the door and interact the same way with these people. He said 1 dr. is a Democrat. I have no idea who it is. No sense walking away from my job, because it's the same everywhere in this area. This area carried Obama twice. I feel that social media hit an intensity level that I never paid attention to before.
Thanks Nancy -- that's a really deflating reality to come to terms with. And no you can't walk away from a job. I want to see what happens moving forward. They voted for Obama twice, Trump will soon be out of office. If they see their realities change there might be shift -- at least some.
Nancy, Thanks for ez link to very interesting story of Iowa. I didn’t know his infamous "I could shoot someone....." line emanated from good ‘ol NW Iowa area. Accccch. I couldn’t hack the high pressure spoken and even more unspoken pressure from a super-tight brand of religion dominating in one town or area. Too much holier-than-thou judging of others going on. SO very clamped down. I get, but don’t wish to join, how they like feeling secure and safe all locked down against "other", "different", working hard to keep their children in line believing most everything same as parents. CONFORM. I’m too individualistic, question everything, free thinking to get locked tight in a society such as that. Would feel stifling. And a little boring. Like here, it’s a little difficult finding like minded people to have real and deep, free flowing conversations with. Many conservatives get defensive when hearing things they don’t wish to consider as possibilities at all. Walls go up. Conversation ends. They don’t dare think outside the pre-programmed box.
Howdy Nancy. Sioux County Iowa. I am MN, but grew up long ago about 35 miles SE of Sheldon. It certainly is a ruby-ruby red area down there. The "Wonderful" Steve King’s district. Finally booted out now. Good farm people, just so darn R. Guns, abortion, church, a very strong streak of farmer independence "Don’t tell me what to do !!" via government regulations, and "Just get a job!!" (IOW, keep your lazy hands out of my wallet). ((But the farmers don’t turn away the big checks from the government Farm Subsidy Program, which seems rather like socialism to me)). You must be in the flat as pancake Dutch country pioneer area, German mixed in. I was from German pioneer area and scenic 200’ river hills. Both groups are perfectionist clean folk, could eat off a basement floor. Loads of hog factories and wind generators. High plains, "Buffalo Ridge" a windy area great for wind power. Representative Devin Nunes of CA, (moo), his family has a large dairy farm up your way, I read a very interesting article on that a few years ago, the reporter was sniffing around for how many undocumented workers NW Iowa farmers hired while Devin was concurrently working on putting undocumented tan folk in cages, etc. And the reporter was shadowed around town and practically run out. He was very much unwelcome !! But in fact, MUCH of the food on our tables requires hot, hard work of migrants for low pay and in less safe working conditions. Many packing plants are 50%, 75% Spanish speaking workers like that. The whole immigration issue is a complex balance of needs and wants of the nation. We like affordable foods on our tables and less expensive goods manufactured in low wage Mexico and China. Yet we also want to produce more here for good wages, costing the consumer more. It’s a tightrope. Bottom line, I encourage young people to get a career that cannot be shipped to China, helps to simplify their choice. Hang in there in Iowa. Maybe everyone not talk politics. Hobbies instead. And WE here in this thread format give thanks for Biden/Harris team coming in. Whew !! Thank goodness. 55 more days.
Nancy, Find out how much Farm Subsidy paid to local farmers at EWG database, public record. Some are well over a $million, even $2M, over last 20 years. Depends on farm size. A social program like SS, Medicare, and our infrastructure, police, fire, schools, etc. We as a society cannot survive sans some socialism. Link: https://farm.ewg.org/index.php
I woke up one Sunday in August to the NYT article called "Christianity Will Have Power" Find it and read it. I was horrified to read it. Well, Randy Feenstra is in Steve King's spot now; he's not much better. I wrote to the State Rep, Skyler Wheeler, because he appeared at a church "Prayer Meeting" supporting election fraud theory, etc. Basically, since I don't see things his way, He's not my state rep. I live in Hawarden.
In a sense, I'm thankful for Covid in that I don't feel guilty about not seeing my Trump supporting relatives in Nebraska. My mother and I had a nuclear bomb of a fight over the phone on Father's Day and we haven't spoken a word to each other since then. My wife wants to reach out to my mom, but I still haven't gotten over our last exchange. She has been repeatedly warned to not bring up politics by my sisters, but like an alcoholic she can't help herself. She really knows how to press my buttons. Don't know when I'll ever get the nerve to talk to her again. She's 91.
Kerry, sadly sometimes we need to set healthy boundaries. I had narcissistic personality disorder rellie much like the Donald, not as horrid. After scratching my head and a bothered mind for 20 years, I learned about boundaries and set them. Narcissists are classic boundary crashers because they only care about themselves. Therefore, I quit all comm’ s with him about 5 years. It just wasn’t worth the hassle. Eventually, mostly so one of us wouldn’t die while not speaking at all, and he was older by 15, I allowed annual bday card and Christmas card, no real phone conversations, too hazardous for him sliding in and arm twisting to get me to agree with him in self-deceit and lies. I’m not interested in supporting other people’s lies so they can be innocent victims, accept ZERO responsibility and comfortable in their own skin. Either be real, be honest, or I’m moving on in my own circle sans them. Now, to your last paragraph, AMEN !!! You’ve said a LOT, we most definitely need more progressive offense, not defense and DECADES of long-term plans and goals. R’s are not inherently individual thinkers who like to question everything. They generally prefer an authoritarian leader and follow, or be one for control, power. Hence many go very deep into a religion often. (Funny meme, "I didn’t know so many sheep fit in a rabbit hole". LOL). So it seems R’s are more natural at following a leader and not questioning, just have faith, just vote R only. D’s being more independent and often more artsy, creative, working in the other side of the brain, D’s seem a little more like herding cats and that is the challenge for long term goals, etc. Keeping us all in line. I suppose Donald was quite good at getting us to remain focused on getting rid of him, I hope we sustain. Stacy Abrams leads the way, is shining example for all other states to emulate.
It feels like we have had to resort to Scientologist practices of disconnection because of Trumpers in families, or long time friends, but I really can’t see myself being civil to the radicalized over the top Trumpers
In addition to the pain and suffering he has caused from COVID-19, kids in cages, white nationalism, and on and on, his lasting legacy will be the horrible pain he has inflicted on people divided by his cult. I have one remaining friend who is a cultist and we have set boundaries where we never discuss anything other than families, weather, etc. and even then it is hard because I have found the cultists seem addicted as you mentioned in one of your other recent newsletters, My husband has lost two brothers to the cult and hasn’t spoken to them in years. And today I read in ProPublica all the last minute destruction he’s trying to inflict before leaving. Truly sad and why we have to keep up the good work. Thanks for offering a safe forum for people like Joanne and all the others. It will get better.
MN and TGiving noon time, I biked around lake and noted few people out and about and few homes with extra cars parked. It appears right here, we are being safer minded in COVID. Thankful for that !
I have an older sister in AZ who is a Trump supporter.
I assumed initially it was because she is very pro-life. I am not even FB friends with her because I post very liberal political items and do not want anyone shaming me for my views.
I cringed when she posted a painting of Donald and Melanie as a couple recently and today I noticed she had posted that she is now listening to right winger Charlie Kirk. (She does not lock down her FB page to private so it’s very visible).
It is very sad for me to see this as she was once a free spirit who moved out west for college to work with Native Americans but ended up going to college in UT.
Anyway, we went through the period where we couldn’t even talk about politics anymore and we have a very minimal relationship now due to our opposite political ideology.
My parents are deceased but I had a father who was an FDR Democrat and a mother who was an Eisenhower Republican. Obviously I was influenced by my father. It did not bother me when my sister voted for Bush or Reagan but Trump is just too much for me.
No, we haven’t spoken in person for years but we have occasionally emailed one another about our travels. I only know about her life and beliefs now by looking at her FB page. She’s actually a very kind person but we just have such opposite views about life and the role of women. It’s like she has a veil over the bad things about Trump and sees a false image of him.
I was listening to the show today and the caller Kurt reminded me of a friend I have in Michigan. He claims to be a Christian and is always trying to bring up religion as an excuse to vote for Republicans. He is even tried to convert me to his religion, but I have declined. He called me Wednesday after the election, and claimed the real reason he doesn't like Biden is because he is a Catholic. My friend then started talking about some bible verse about trump related to Kings. I had already tuned him out at this point.
Thx for sharing the story and continuing to provide a forum for those of us who for one reason or another are dealing with the Trump colt on the regular. Very grateful for you Michelangelo.
Hello everyone, its Joanne from Michigan and I have to start off by saying THANK SOMEONES GOD for MICHELANGELO SIGNORILE and his SHOW and that JOE BIDEN WON!!! I feel like for the first time in 4 years that I feel peace and relief, I feel good about the future. Although I am surrounded by trump cult members here in Lapeer County, MI, where restaurant owners are refusing to follow our Governors rules to shutdown and where the cult still has their flags, banners and signs up in their yards and on their stupid pick-up trucks, and refuse to wear masks at the grocery store. When I see these fools, all I can do is shake my head and wear a big ass grin under my mask.
Like the article said, I live with 2 trump voters, my 24 yr old son is very political, just like his Mama, he was so excited to vote in his first election back in 2012 when he voted for Obama and got in trouble with me for taking Romney signs from neighbors. Now my son has trump flags and shirts and is all the way deep in the cult. My husband, a UAW worker, has been a lifelong Democrat, until 2020 when he broke my heart and voted a straight republican ticket, something he told me he did after we voted. A lot of the guys at the auto plant love trump (one friend actually believes the world is flat!) and they broke through to my husband with the poor angry white man bullshit, like they have been done so wrong in life, that and he reads some crazy shit, most of the stuff he reads and shows me I debunk after I do a fact check. He may not believe my fact checking, but in time, I am always proven right.
Now, my husband is not into politics at all, he hates, hates, hates everything about it, whereas its my passion, I was raised in a very political Union/Teamsters household, where we were not allowed to say "shut up" or call each other "stupid or dumb" that the worst word is the "n" word, and we were told to always treat everyone how you want to be treated. I thought everyone was raised that way, sadly, they are not. My husband is of the mindset that all politicians are the same and are all corrupt and nothing will ever change that, except for maybe trump. For the last 25 years my husband and I have watched the UAW get more and more corrupt and the workers lose benefit after benefit as the Union leadership and CEO's get big bonuses time and time again and no raises for the workers, no extra nothing. When the workers don't get to elect the UAW president and management does, people become corrupt and UAW leaders forget they are there to represent the workers. I tell my husband to get involved, but he just was not raised to be that way, he was raised to keep his mouth shut, go to work and make a buck and only look out for your own, which is so opposite of my beliefs and how I was raised.
My son on the other hand is just like me, very passionate about politics, how he went from a Progressive Dem to a trump cult member is beyond me, but it is devastating. I do think my husbands parents (who we have not seen in almost a year, because of Covid, and they live 30 mins away 6 months out of the year), BIG trumpers, had a big effect on my son, and whatever shitty podcasts he listens too, and they must be some doozies because the crap that comes out of his mouth is stunning! My son thinks that the Dems cheated and stole the election from his cult leader, 100% believes it. He says the mail in ballots were a hoax, even though he knows I voted mail in/absentee ballot, that I hand delivered to my Clerks office. He thinks the people counting ballots in Detroit cheated and wouldn't let any poll watchers in, which we all know is not true. He wears a mask when he goes out, but thinks the Gov has no right telling people they have to wear one, but I bet had trump told him to wear a mask he would be fine with that. These days he walks in the room and says to me "stop the steal", he thinks it annoys me, when in actuallity it makes me laugh, none of that bothers me anymore because WE are the champions and those guys are losers, my friends....
I am almost glad we are not having all of the family here at our house this Thanksgiving (due to Covid), I choose to not be around any trumpers, except my son because he still lives at home. I have cut so many people/trump cult members out, people who have shown their true colors with their support of trump, which is most every one of the bratty entitled people I grew up with in Oakland County, MI in a well off area. I hear enough bat shit crazy rhetoric from my son, who won't bet me that Biden will be sworn in on Jan 20, 2021, yet wants to tell me trump will be president for the next 4 years. I say, hopefully trump will be president of his cell block in prison, which is a whole other issue that we all must stay on top of the Democrats to do, that and fight for new Dem leadership, the current leadership is out of touch and can't see the direction our party is trying to drag them. I recall Pelosi saying a few years ago that she would be Speaker for the 1st trump term, then would pass the torch, of course she isn't going anywhere until we push her out. Term limits sure would fix a lot in our broken system, it would force the politicians to finally work for the people and not spend all their time trying to raise money and rub elbows with corporate America. But, first we have to get through inaguration, then we get tough on our party! I wish Covid was done so I could go to the inaguration with my Mom and siblings, but my Mom just finished 8 months of chemo, radiation and more chemo, so we won't take any chances, hoping we can go see President Kamala Harris sworn in on Jan. 20, 2024!!
Have a great holiday season everyone, be smart and stay safe, we can see our families next Thanksgiving and many more after that, missing out on 1 year to have many more is ok by me. And thank you Michelangelo for bringing us all together here and for writing this article, you saved my heart and soul these last 4 years, seriously.
Joanne, thank you for your comment on the show -- but really, thank you for the work you do and for joining in the discussion and describing your experience. It's really difficult and painful. And to see your son's transformation is tough. But it's great that you're in his life and here's hoping for a better future.
Thank you for sharing and yes glad we have Michaelangelo, his show and this forum!I can't imagine my husband or any of my 3 sons being a trumper.My brother is torture enough and I am not seeing him because he believes Covid is not that bad. My heart aches for you in this situation and hope you find peace this Thanksgiving. Hugs to you!
My in laws are so gone drinking the koolaid too. I’m glad we can laugh now that change is in order. My mother in laws fb post keep getting flagged as false and I can’t help but get a kick out of it now, although at times it is scary... there is woman who’s daughter was involved In a religious cult, I think it’s in a Netflix doc now, but I can’t remember her name, she discusses how she successfully D programmed her daughter, and it wasn’t by telling her how wrong she was or how ridiculous their ideas were, but it was to keep reminding her of who she was before she got involved in the cult. She eventually broke through. I’m hopeful that maybe for some of our family like your son (some are just too far gone) we can break through someday. Keep trying and keep loving ♥️
I am so sorry to read this. It must be painful. For me it is a brother, but for you, it is your spouse and son--and that is so much more difficult.
My only advice (if I may) (and this I only suggest because you love them; I would never suggest this if the relationship was friends):
Never argue with them. State your thoughts and feelings. Let them disagree and then say nothing. Just love them. Hold to your convictions, but let them see two things: 1) you will not waver in your conviction, and 2) you will always love them. Love is bottomless and while it may seem as if you have expended the last of your love, look deeper and you will find more, tomorrow, and then give that love to them.
Be the anchor in the rough seas. They are likely going through issues. A lot of men are. Today the media issues nonsense like: "toxic masculinity," or "angry white men." Do not do that. Do not put them in a box. Any attempt to "analyze" them will backfire. This is not the time or the place to argue about trivialities like Trump (and in comparison to your love for you family, politics takes a back seat).
It will take time. They will eventually see that the other Trump supporters have issues. Eventually, they will come home. But they will NOT come home if you argue. Lay down the sword and shield and just love them.
My mother voted for Obama 2x but now voted for Trump twice. She brings up the bullshit socialism argument all the time. Never once acknowledged the fascist regime that the Trump administration was.
My father on the other hand a lifelong Republican who never voted for a Democrat said he just couldn’t bring himself to vote again for a man that ignored the pandemic and allowed all these people to die. Unfortunately he didn’t vote at all but at least he didn’t vote for any republicans
That's intense Carl. It's hard to fathom how your mother went from Obama twice to Trump twice -- while your father realized it was wrong, even though he never voted for Obama or a Democrat. What part of the country do they live in? I I'm sure this is very stressful but at least there's a bridge thee with your father.
My dad still lives here on Long Island. My mom and step father moved to Florida in 1998, and moved to Georgia in 2018.
Weird thing is that she voted for OsOff in I one senate race but Doug Collins in the other?! Makes no sense to me. I blasted her and my step dad for voting for Kemp for Governor, and she at least has come to realize that that was a mistake.
With my dad I find that we can at least have a debate about things without getting heated even thought I don’t think he’ll even vote for a Democrat. At least his wife is pretty liberal and thinks his Republican politics are nuts lol
I haven't spoken with my father for about two years now. For someone who I never thought he had a racist bone in his body, he would constantly repost horrible right-wing memes on Facebook that were pretty much blatantly racist and usually easily disproven with two minutes of Internet research. He knows that my brother and I are staunch liberals, yet he'll repost things calling all Democrats church bombers and baby killers. In fact I think he knows the memes he reposts are full of lies, but he just doesn't care as long as they can "own the libs" or whatever. He always seemed accepting of me being gay so that's not the problem. But decades of watching Fox News and following right-wing media has turned him to despise and vilify Hillary Clinton, Obama and all Democrats. My brother occasionally still talks to him and as long as they don't get into politics, it's fine. I just can't go there yet. I'm too disappointed in my father for that, though he is getting older and I would like to patch things up.
Sadly for most Trump supporters, I don't see them ever facing reality again. And I can't think of a solution either. As much as we'd like to, we can't just turn off right-wing media. We can't force them to start telling the truth. It really is a cult, and how do you rescue millions of people who don't want to be rescued? When they think scientists, experts, higher education and even main stream media are part of the "liberal elite", that only leaves lowbrow news opinion shows, crackpots and fringe Internet websites as their only source of information. How can this decades-old shift away from education, facts and truth be turned around? No idea.
One last thought: there are conservative think-tanks that for decades have done long-term planning which has enacted gerrymandering, voter suppression tactics and more. Do we have any liberal think-tanks out there who can do some long-term strategizing? It seems that right-wing media always sets the tone and language of the debate, and we're always left defending ourselves and playing catch-up. It's about time we took the offensive for a change.
Kerry, thanks for a very thoughtful post.I'm really struck by the your description of your father as someone who you thought "never had a racist bone in his body." What is it that activates within people, something deep and unhidden, that suddenly allows them to express these views, support these views? More so, how did they seem not to previously have these beliefs? This is I think a major part of this -- bias that is deeply rooted but for many never, ever spoken, and thus believed to be free of it, surfaces. It shows the power of racism in this culture, how we're all raised within it and make choice not to act up and/or the either challenge ourselves or just suppress it. Then this Fox New indoctrination happen for those who are ripe for it. So part of the solution -- the heavier work -- is making sure people are ripe for it, and that's about changing society on a larger scale.
In terms of think tanks, Dems have been far behind but catching up, with orgs like the Center for American Progress. It's a bigger issue, re: conservative media and how people are conducive to a message. Democrats and progressives promoting free-thinking and are free-thinkers, questioning authority. We'll never have that blind loyalty to some sort of propaganda. And that's a good thing. But it does mean we have to educate people more.
I think all these points it's it's about education, getting people free college, expanding minds and thinking.
oh jeez i made so many typos here. I mean to say "make a choice not to act on it and/or to challenge ourselves" and then i mean to say the heavier work -- is making sure people are NOT ripe for it...
Alot of my friends who voted for trump in 2016 indicated to me that they were not voting for him in 2020 , but the damage was done because I warned them about what kind of person he was in 2015. The few that voted for him the 2nd time I have a real problem with and do not socialize with them anymore. Luckily my family votes democratic. Still very dejected that 73 million people voted for 45.
They can claim to have been "fooled" once, but not twice.
Amen Greg. It’s much easier to forgive 1st vote. The 2nd and millions more, was a gut punch of reality. It indicates something very dysfunctional about our culture, our society. Gut punch.
74 million voted for Trump because they have bought into the distorted reality peddled every day by conservative media. Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and all their imitators push an unending stream of lies, smears, and canards to millions of viewers day after day. Their target is Democrats. Sometimes they go off message and target blacks or Hispanics, but the primary focus of their hate mongering is the Democratic Party (which they intentionally mislabel the "Democrat" Party). They now have an army of misinformed Americans 74 million strong.
I refuse to associate with Trump supporters. My oath to the Constitution didn't end after my time in the military (protect the country from enemies, both foreign and domestic). Trump is an enemy of the state, and so are his supporters. I fully expect to be disowned by relatives who still support him. No loss to me, though.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you! Let's rejoice and be thankful that we have Biden and the amazing cabinet he is creating to look forward to. Also we will have someone in office who cares about human beings and will correctly respond to the pandemic. My heart aches for those with trump family members. I have it with my own brother. We have always been so close and he likes to bait me telling me that he is listening to Tucker on Fox. And my husband's side of the family is lost to me forever. I have told my children I will never ask them to fly and visit them again and they have my total permission to disengage as the rhetoric is not in line with what we support. The past 4 years and pandemic have led me conclude I can let some of these people go. Having said that with your spouse or child that is sooo complicated. Love to all of you beautiful souls this Thanksgiving!
My first post was lost? Anyway, I live in Sioux County, IA. I am from Seattle but have lived here for 16 years. Social media has brought to light that I am a Democrat in a sea of red. I work for a medical clinic as a housekeeper. I've come to find out the 20 doctors I work for are all Trump supporters. One gave me the Trump pitch/anti-Socialism pitch the other night. "Don't watch CNN or MSNBC." "Basement Joe" and the whole script they all follow. I am so upset now. I will never walk in the door and interact the same way with these people. He said 1 dr. is a Democrat. I have no idea who it is. No sense walking away from my job, because it's the same everywhere in this area. This area carried Obama twice. I feel that social media hit an intensity level that I never paid attention to before.
Thanks Nancy -- that's a really deflating reality to come to terms with. And no you can't walk away from a job. I want to see what happens moving forward. They voted for Obama twice, Trump will soon be out of office. If they see their realities change there might be shift -- at least some.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/09/us/evangelicals-trump-christianity.html
Nancy, Thanks for ez link to very interesting story of Iowa. I didn’t know his infamous "I could shoot someone....." line emanated from good ‘ol NW Iowa area. Accccch. I couldn’t hack the high pressure spoken and even more unspoken pressure from a super-tight brand of religion dominating in one town or area. Too much holier-than-thou judging of others going on. SO very clamped down. I get, but don’t wish to join, how they like feeling secure and safe all locked down against "other", "different", working hard to keep their children in line believing most everything same as parents. CONFORM. I’m too individualistic, question everything, free thinking to get locked tight in a society such as that. Would feel stifling. And a little boring. Like here, it’s a little difficult finding like minded people to have real and deep, free flowing conversations with. Many conservatives get defensive when hearing things they don’t wish to consider as possibilities at all. Walls go up. Conversation ends. They don’t dare think outside the pre-programmed box.
Howdy Nancy. Sioux County Iowa. I am MN, but grew up long ago about 35 miles SE of Sheldon. It certainly is a ruby-ruby red area down there. The "Wonderful" Steve King’s district. Finally booted out now. Good farm people, just so darn R. Guns, abortion, church, a very strong streak of farmer independence "Don’t tell me what to do !!" via government regulations, and "Just get a job!!" (IOW, keep your lazy hands out of my wallet). ((But the farmers don’t turn away the big checks from the government Farm Subsidy Program, which seems rather like socialism to me)). You must be in the flat as pancake Dutch country pioneer area, German mixed in. I was from German pioneer area and scenic 200’ river hills. Both groups are perfectionist clean folk, could eat off a basement floor. Loads of hog factories and wind generators. High plains, "Buffalo Ridge" a windy area great for wind power. Representative Devin Nunes of CA, (moo), his family has a large dairy farm up your way, I read a very interesting article on that a few years ago, the reporter was sniffing around for how many undocumented workers NW Iowa farmers hired while Devin was concurrently working on putting undocumented tan folk in cages, etc. And the reporter was shadowed around town and practically run out. He was very much unwelcome !! But in fact, MUCH of the food on our tables requires hot, hard work of migrants for low pay and in less safe working conditions. Many packing plants are 50%, 75% Spanish speaking workers like that. The whole immigration issue is a complex balance of needs and wants of the nation. We like affordable foods on our tables and less expensive goods manufactured in low wage Mexico and China. Yet we also want to produce more here for good wages, costing the consumer more. It’s a tightrope. Bottom line, I encourage young people to get a career that cannot be shipped to China, helps to simplify their choice. Hang in there in Iowa. Maybe everyone not talk politics. Hobbies instead. And WE here in this thread format give thanks for Biden/Harris team coming in. Whew !! Thank goodness. 55 more days.
Nancy, Find out how much Farm Subsidy paid to local farmers at EWG database, public record. Some are well over a $million, even $2M, over last 20 years. Depends on farm size. A social program like SS, Medicare, and our infrastructure, police, fire, schools, etc. We as a society cannot survive sans some socialism. Link: https://farm.ewg.org/index.php
I woke up one Sunday in August to the NYT article called "Christianity Will Have Power" Find it and read it. I was horrified to read it. Well, Randy Feenstra is in Steve King's spot now; he's not much better. I wrote to the State Rep, Skyler Wheeler, because he appeared at a church "Prayer Meeting" supporting election fraud theory, etc. Basically, since I don't see things his way, He's not my state rep. I live in Hawarden.
I don't understand why they would have voted for Obama.
In a sense, I'm thankful for Covid in that I don't feel guilty about not seeing my Trump supporting relatives in Nebraska. My mother and I had a nuclear bomb of a fight over the phone on Father's Day and we haven't spoken a word to each other since then. My wife wants to reach out to my mom, but I still haven't gotten over our last exchange. She has been repeatedly warned to not bring up politics by my sisters, but like an alcoholic she can't help herself. She really knows how to press my buttons. Don't know when I'll ever get the nerve to talk to her again. She's 91.
A tough one Mike. She's older, hard to know if she'll ever change.
Agreed. History has shown me that.
Be very thankful this year if you have immediate family members who despise this super spreader-in-chief.
Kerry, sadly sometimes we need to set healthy boundaries. I had narcissistic personality disorder rellie much like the Donald, not as horrid. After scratching my head and a bothered mind for 20 years, I learned about boundaries and set them. Narcissists are classic boundary crashers because they only care about themselves. Therefore, I quit all comm’ s with him about 5 years. It just wasn’t worth the hassle. Eventually, mostly so one of us wouldn’t die while not speaking at all, and he was older by 15, I allowed annual bday card and Christmas card, no real phone conversations, too hazardous for him sliding in and arm twisting to get me to agree with him in self-deceit and lies. I’m not interested in supporting other people’s lies so they can be innocent victims, accept ZERO responsibility and comfortable in their own skin. Either be real, be honest, or I’m moving on in my own circle sans them. Now, to your last paragraph, AMEN !!! You’ve said a LOT, we most definitely need more progressive offense, not defense and DECADES of long-term plans and goals. R’s are not inherently individual thinkers who like to question everything. They generally prefer an authoritarian leader and follow, or be one for control, power. Hence many go very deep into a religion often. (Funny meme, "I didn’t know so many sheep fit in a rabbit hole". LOL). So it seems R’s are more natural at following a leader and not questioning, just have faith, just vote R only. D’s being more independent and often more artsy, creative, working in the other side of the brain, D’s seem a little more like herding cats and that is the challenge for long term goals, etc. Keeping us all in line. I suppose Donald was quite good at getting us to remain focused on getting rid of him, I hope we sustain. Stacy Abrams leads the way, is shining example for all other states to emulate.
It feels like we have had to resort to Scientologist practices of disconnection because of Trumpers in families, or long time friends, but I really can’t see myself being civil to the radicalized over the top Trumpers
In addition to the pain and suffering he has caused from COVID-19, kids in cages, white nationalism, and on and on, his lasting legacy will be the horrible pain he has inflicted on people divided by his cult. I have one remaining friend who is a cultist and we have set boundaries where we never discuss anything other than families, weather, etc. and even then it is hard because I have found the cultists seem addicted as you mentioned in one of your other recent newsletters, My husband has lost two brothers to the cult and hasn’t spoken to them in years. And today I read in ProPublica all the last minute destruction he’s trying to inflict before leaving. Truly sad and why we have to keep up the good work. Thanks for offering a safe forum for people like Joanne and all the others. It will get better.
Thanks for being part of it Chris.
MN and TGiving noon time, I biked around lake and noted few people out and about and few homes with extra cars parked. It appears right here, we are being safer minded in COVID. Thankful for that !
I have an older sister in AZ who is a Trump supporter.
I assumed initially it was because she is very pro-life. I am not even FB friends with her because I post very liberal political items and do not want anyone shaming me for my views.
I cringed when she posted a painting of Donald and Melanie as a couple recently and today I noticed she had posted that she is now listening to right winger Charlie Kirk. (She does not lock down her FB page to private so it’s very visible).
It is very sad for me to see this as she was once a free spirit who moved out west for college to work with Native Americans but ended up going to college in UT.
Anyway, we went through the period where we couldn’t even talk about politics anymore and we have a very minimal relationship now due to our opposite political ideology.
My parents are deceased but I had a father who was an FDR Democrat and a mother who was an Eisenhower Republican. Obviously I was influenced by my father. It did not bother me when my sister voted for Bush or Reagan but Trump is just too much for me.
Thanks Sandra. Does she still speak at all with you? Has she brought up the election?
No, we haven’t spoken in person for years but we have occasionally emailed one another about our travels. I only know about her life and beliefs now by looking at her FB page. She’s actually a very kind person but we just have such opposite views about life and the role of women. It’s like she has a veil over the bad things about Trump and sees a false image of him.
I was listening to the show today and the caller Kurt reminded me of a friend I have in Michigan. He claims to be a Christian and is always trying to bring up religion as an excuse to vote for Republicans. He is even tried to convert me to his religion, but I have declined. He called me Wednesday after the election, and claimed the real reason he doesn't like Biden is because he is a Catholic. My friend then started talking about some bible verse about trump related to Kings. I had already tuned him out at this point.
Oh he was a peach. A nice guy, but I was not going to let him off the hook in refusing to think and allowing his bias in the name of religion.
Thx for sharing the story and continuing to provide a forum for those of us who for one reason or another are dealing with the Trump colt on the regular. Very grateful for you Michelangelo.
Thank you Alison.
Cult not colt
Hello everyone, its Joanne from Michigan and I have to start off by saying THANK SOMEONES GOD for MICHELANGELO SIGNORILE and his SHOW and that JOE BIDEN WON!!! I feel like for the first time in 4 years that I feel peace and relief, I feel good about the future. Although I am surrounded by trump cult members here in Lapeer County, MI, where restaurant owners are refusing to follow our Governors rules to shutdown and where the cult still has their flags, banners and signs up in their yards and on their stupid pick-up trucks, and refuse to wear masks at the grocery store. When I see these fools, all I can do is shake my head and wear a big ass grin under my mask.
Like the article said, I live with 2 trump voters, my 24 yr old son is very political, just like his Mama, he was so excited to vote in his first election back in 2012 when he voted for Obama and got in trouble with me for taking Romney signs from neighbors. Now my son has trump flags and shirts and is all the way deep in the cult. My husband, a UAW worker, has been a lifelong Democrat, until 2020 when he broke my heart and voted a straight republican ticket, something he told me he did after we voted. A lot of the guys at the auto plant love trump (one friend actually believes the world is flat!) and they broke through to my husband with the poor angry white man bullshit, like they have been done so wrong in life, that and he reads some crazy shit, most of the stuff he reads and shows me I debunk after I do a fact check. He may not believe my fact checking, but in time, I am always proven right.
Now, my husband is not into politics at all, he hates, hates, hates everything about it, whereas its my passion, I was raised in a very political Union/Teamsters household, where we were not allowed to say "shut up" or call each other "stupid or dumb" that the worst word is the "n" word, and we were told to always treat everyone how you want to be treated. I thought everyone was raised that way, sadly, they are not. My husband is of the mindset that all politicians are the same and are all corrupt and nothing will ever change that, except for maybe trump. For the last 25 years my husband and I have watched the UAW get more and more corrupt and the workers lose benefit after benefit as the Union leadership and CEO's get big bonuses time and time again and no raises for the workers, no extra nothing. When the workers don't get to elect the UAW president and management does, people become corrupt and UAW leaders forget they are there to represent the workers. I tell my husband to get involved, but he just was not raised to be that way, he was raised to keep his mouth shut, go to work and make a buck and only look out for your own, which is so opposite of my beliefs and how I was raised.
My son on the other hand is just like me, very passionate about politics, how he went from a Progressive Dem to a trump cult member is beyond me, but it is devastating. I do think my husbands parents (who we have not seen in almost a year, because of Covid, and they live 30 mins away 6 months out of the year), BIG trumpers, had a big effect on my son, and whatever shitty podcasts he listens too, and they must be some doozies because the crap that comes out of his mouth is stunning! My son thinks that the Dems cheated and stole the election from his cult leader, 100% believes it. He says the mail in ballots were a hoax, even though he knows I voted mail in/absentee ballot, that I hand delivered to my Clerks office. He thinks the people counting ballots in Detroit cheated and wouldn't let any poll watchers in, which we all know is not true. He wears a mask when he goes out, but thinks the Gov has no right telling people they have to wear one, but I bet had trump told him to wear a mask he would be fine with that. These days he walks in the room and says to me "stop the steal", he thinks it annoys me, when in actuallity it makes me laugh, none of that bothers me anymore because WE are the champions and those guys are losers, my friends....
I am almost glad we are not having all of the family here at our house this Thanksgiving (due to Covid), I choose to not be around any trumpers, except my son because he still lives at home. I have cut so many people/trump cult members out, people who have shown their true colors with their support of trump, which is most every one of the bratty entitled people I grew up with in Oakland County, MI in a well off area. I hear enough bat shit crazy rhetoric from my son, who won't bet me that Biden will be sworn in on Jan 20, 2021, yet wants to tell me trump will be president for the next 4 years. I say, hopefully trump will be president of his cell block in prison, which is a whole other issue that we all must stay on top of the Democrats to do, that and fight for new Dem leadership, the current leadership is out of touch and can't see the direction our party is trying to drag them. I recall Pelosi saying a few years ago that she would be Speaker for the 1st trump term, then would pass the torch, of course she isn't going anywhere until we push her out. Term limits sure would fix a lot in our broken system, it would force the politicians to finally work for the people and not spend all their time trying to raise money and rub elbows with corporate America. But, first we have to get through inaguration, then we get tough on our party! I wish Covid was done so I could go to the inaguration with my Mom and siblings, but my Mom just finished 8 months of chemo, radiation and more chemo, so we won't take any chances, hoping we can go see President Kamala Harris sworn in on Jan. 20, 2024!!
Have a great holiday season everyone, be smart and stay safe, we can see our families next Thanksgiving and many more after that, missing out on 1 year to have many more is ok by me. And thank you Michelangelo for bringing us all together here and for writing this article, you saved my heart and soul these last 4 years, seriously.
Joanne, thank you for your comment on the show -- but really, thank you for the work you do and for joining in the discussion and describing your experience. It's really difficult and painful. And to see your son's transformation is tough. But it's great that you're in his life and here's hoping for a better future.
Thank you for sharing and yes glad we have Michaelangelo, his show and this forum!I can't imagine my husband or any of my 3 sons being a trumper.My brother is torture enough and I am not seeing him because he believes Covid is not that bad. My heart aches for you in this situation and hope you find peace this Thanksgiving. Hugs to you!
My in laws are so gone drinking the koolaid too. I’m glad we can laugh now that change is in order. My mother in laws fb post keep getting flagged as false and I can’t help but get a kick out of it now, although at times it is scary... there is woman who’s daughter was involved In a religious cult, I think it’s in a Netflix doc now, but I can’t remember her name, she discusses how she successfully D programmed her daughter, and it wasn’t by telling her how wrong she was or how ridiculous their ideas were, but it was to keep reminding her of who she was before she got involved in the cult. She eventually broke through. I’m hopeful that maybe for some of our family like your son (some are just too far gone) we can break through someday. Keep trying and keep loving ♥️
*deprogrammed
I am so sorry to read this. It must be painful. For me it is a brother, but for you, it is your spouse and son--and that is so much more difficult.
My only advice (if I may) (and this I only suggest because you love them; I would never suggest this if the relationship was friends):
Never argue with them. State your thoughts and feelings. Let them disagree and then say nothing. Just love them. Hold to your convictions, but let them see two things: 1) you will not waver in your conviction, and 2) you will always love them. Love is bottomless and while it may seem as if you have expended the last of your love, look deeper and you will find more, tomorrow, and then give that love to them.
Be the anchor in the rough seas. They are likely going through issues. A lot of men are. Today the media issues nonsense like: "toxic masculinity," or "angry white men." Do not do that. Do not put them in a box. Any attempt to "analyze" them will backfire. This is not the time or the place to argue about trivialities like Trump (and in comparison to your love for you family, politics takes a back seat).
It will take time. They will eventually see that the other Trump supporters have issues. Eventually, they will come home. But they will NOT come home if you argue. Lay down the sword and shield and just love them.
My mother voted for Obama 2x but now voted for Trump twice. She brings up the bullshit socialism argument all the time. Never once acknowledged the fascist regime that the Trump administration was.
My father on the other hand a lifelong Republican who never voted for a Democrat said he just couldn’t bring himself to vote again for a man that ignored the pandemic and allowed all these people to die. Unfortunately he didn’t vote at all but at least he didn’t vote for any republicans
That's intense Carl. It's hard to fathom how your mother went from Obama twice to Trump twice -- while your father realized it was wrong, even though he never voted for Obama or a Democrat. What part of the country do they live in? I I'm sure this is very stressful but at least there's a bridge thee with your father.
My dad still lives here on Long Island. My mom and step father moved to Florida in 1998, and moved to Georgia in 2018.
Weird thing is that she voted for OsOff in I one senate race but Doug Collins in the other?! Makes no sense to me. I blasted her and my step dad for voting for Kemp for Governor, and she at least has come to realize that that was a mistake.
With my dad I find that we can at least have a debate about things without getting heated even thought I don’t think he’ll even vote for a Democrat. At least his wife is pretty liberal and thinks his Republican politics are nuts lol