I cut off communication with a former co-worker when I found out she was a Trump supporter. And I was confused since she is from Guatemala. As an African-American woman with friends and family who are LGBTQ, I will not reach out. Why should I have to reach out and understand people who define me as 3/5ths of a human being? Why should I try to persuade a bigot who believes in abusive conversion therapy for LGBTQ? Those people have zero respect for others so they do not deserve my understanding nor accommodation of their hatred.
They prey upon people's religious faith and lack of understanding of politics, at a time when there's so much distrust. But if this person can't see how Trump is harming people of color it's hard to convince her.
I had a heated conversation with my father a few months ago and told him I did not want to hear anything that he heard on FOX news anymore and that it was damaging my opinion of his character. He was pretty offended but fortunately he stayed in the conversation long enough to get to what is important about our relationship. I didn't change his mind and it still bothers me that he is ok with bigotry, but he has stopped mentioning conspiracy theories to me.
As for strangers it's a hard no for me to engage in deprogramming trump supporters. They are not acting in good faith and their arguments are not based in reality.
Also Biden is pretty out of touch to call for unity. I refuse to be unified with racists, fascists and bigots who have spent 4 years inciting and engaging in violence towards myself and the people I care about. There is no circumstance that these people and their behavior should be normalized.
One thing I have learned about these people after studying them for 4 years is they actually do care what we think of them. They can be shamed and made to feel unwelcome and if enough people in a community push back at them they become cowards. So there are ways of dealing with them and discouraging their worst behavior.
Sorry about your father but actually I think you handled it well and drew the line. As for the strangers I am happy to engage and have conversation but also happy to tell them to go to hell when they lose it.
I have a dear friend who is a Trump lover. He is older than me. (63 and I’m 35.) He doesn’t like talking politics to friends aside from the occasional ribbing, which is fine by me. Frankly, it spares me the headache.
The only time I was ever really annoyed by his politics was this past summer as a passenger aboard my boat on an inland lake 35-miles NW of Milwaukee in red-hot Washington Co. We just so happened to be out on a beautiful afternoon in the midst of one of the infamous Trump boat parades. This one was relatively bridled—no capsizings, sinkings or other maelstrom—just a lot of hootin’ and a hollerin’ and daytime fireworks, of all things, amongst the comically large MAGA flags flying off the ass ends (technically, nautically, sterns) of their boats. I like boats that don’t sink, believe me!
Anyway, just the near physical presence of these fellow Trumpers triggered dear Rick. It’s like he became possessed—grabbed my portable speaker and started blaring country music, and chanting as part of the aforementioned hootenanny from afar (I maintained our boat at a safe and healthy distance, upwind)… My partner purchased a Biden flag right then and there.
The hive mentality of these creatures is incredible. They really are a “basket of deplorables.” I will never tell them such because they twistedly embrace it. I am just fortunate Rick isn’t on any forms of social media to further enhance the delusions, otherwise I would have to resort to Trump-like nicknaming and refer to him as bat-sh!t Rick! SAD.
Wow, Danny. That is an extraordinary story. It’s like a chip in his brain drew him, couldn’t control himself . It’s rude and arrogant to his host but he didn’t care. It was all about the cult.
I will definitely speak with MAGAts. I'm related to some and many are good friends despite their support of treason. I may just call them at Midnight, Jan. 20, I am postponing celebrating New Years Eve until the 19th, to wish them a Happy New Administration!
I had an annual dermatologist appointment last week. While in the waiting room fully masked , a blonde haired middle aged woman patient arrived decked out in full MAGA regalia, hat, mask(“Gays for Trump”),a sweat shirt emblazoned with “Make America Great Again”, white sweat pants printed with tRump’s mug shot, and her large bag was also MAGA . She was on her phone talking and I noted that she had a strong Dutch or German accent. When I left my appointment, I noticed that she was getting into her car, which again was fitted all over with MAGA paraphernalia. I suggest she may never “recover” from whatever mental disturbance motivates her.
Wow, now that is a cult. That is her entire identity right there, her fashion, everything. In a way though, it could almost work like a fad -- in one day, out the other. Let's hope.
This is a huge issue for me, especially heading into 2021. It's likely my husband and I will be leaving California in a few months. We're both from the Midwest but have been here for more than half our lives. Our likely destination is Michigan, my birthplace. This will provide us a built-in web of community right off the bat but will also come with challenges since we'll suddenly be near people who still support the republican party. One of these is my aunt. She's not a lot older than I am, and when I was younger, we sometimes hung out together. I especially remember having a great time seeing Queen with her in 1982 (I don't care what anyone says, I liked the Hot Space album!). She's always been "grumpy", and back in the Obama era I heard rumors she "liked the tea party". But in my family, you avoid these subjects because there is supposed to be nothing that would make you turn your back on family or friends. My father's brothers, for example, are pretty racist. My parents will still drive many hours to attend family reunions, and their solution to the racism is to "leave the room if they start talking like that". My parents are dyed in the wool liberal democrats who accepted me as gay when I came out to them at 15, and transgender later. They are good people, but I don't agree with their approach to this issue.
Fast forward to today, as I lurk on my aunt's Twitter feed. She follows all the worst people, and she "likes" lots of awful tweets, including transphobic ones. When we move back to Michigan there will be an expectation that we spend time with her. I see no point in that, and I have to decide how to handle it. I can certainly look her in the eye, show her the screenshots of the tweets she seems to approve of, and ask her why. But do I even want to waste the energy on that? I'm especially sad that my existence in her life doesn't have enough effect on her to prevent this sickness. I'm in no mood to try to help deprogram her. I've spent my whole life fighting ignorance and I don't feel the need at my age to fight it within my own family, people who are supposed to love me. I'm also angry that the stand I take with her will likely impact my relationships to my mom & dad. That just makes me angrier at her.
This is a very longwinded way of saying no...I will not be welcoming people who currently support Trump/republicans into my life. I want to concentrate my energies on people and projects where my passion and hard work are deserved, and not sacrificed just because we happen to share a family tree or a friendship in the past.
Daya, are glad going there to visit family or do one of you have a temporary job? Anyway, it's that's a good resolution. We can't put up with people who promote this crap -- unless they're a) respectful and b) they seeming willing to change. I can understand people being polite or mildly tolerant with family. But if there's no change possible I can't see engaging.
My husband's job here in Silicon Valley has been our primary source of income for almost 20 years. He works for a NASA contractor, which meant we needed to stay here (the in-person job has been at Ames Research in Mountain View). He's been working remotely since March and a few months ago his job was cut in half. He's got some more temporary remote work to allow us to stay through the winter, but once this work comes to an end, we feel we should be living somewhere that's not one of the most expensive places to be. It just feels like it's time to pack it in and say goodbye to California, as many of our friends already have.
We literally could move anywhere, but we're zeroing in on Michigan for our new home. I never thought I would be returning to that area...but so many of our lives have taken an unexpected right turn. All bets are off at this point.
The thought of moving from the area after 33+ years is overwhelming, but I'm trying to see it as a later-in-life adventure.
Regarding my aunt, perhaps I'm being too strict to say I don't want to be around her at all. The fact is, she doesn't talk about her political views...ever...which is why it has taken this long to realize where she stands. By the time we get to Michigan later this year, I suppose EVERYthing may feel different. But this topic is currently taking up a lot of my brainspace right now, and is a blazing furnace for some funky anxiety!
Oh my gosh YES! We have been fully affected by the smoke for the past couple years. We sit in a valley and in 2020 there were fires on most sides. We've now become used to checking the AQI (air quality index) with an app before leaving the house. And it appears this will be an ongoing issue every year. So absolutely...getting away from that will be a "glass half full" thing.
Luckily there are quite a few LGBTQ+ friendly cities/towns in Michigan to visit in case your family gets on your nerves. Even though the ScAmway/DeVos loving GOPer pricks in the state have turned it into Michissippi. I'm originally from this rough city in Michigan known as Jackson. A place which has as many bars as their are churches, not to mention that many jails and a maximum security prison are nearby. Wish I had your compassion, because I tend to shoot my mouth off and say horrible things about their orange lord and savior if any family member said anything positive about him.
My immediate family is in Metro Detroit. We certainly have an eye toward cities like Ferndale or Royal Oak as LGBT-friendly. Although I like the idea of landing in Detroit proper. I know of Jackson. My high school girlfriend had family there.
I would also take the opportunity to sound off if anyone around me spoke in a positive way about Trump or republicans in general. My issue is KNOWING someone feels that way and being expected to ignore it in order to maintain peace. I mean...peace at what cost?!?!?!
I knew this Trump cult was coming a long time ago after the whole Waco raid, and the gun-nut militia whackos that resulted from it. They were amalgamated into the Republican's southern strategy and now we have all this white right-wing terrorism resulting from it.
I truly believe that we can no longer stick to the old adage” we don’t talk about religion or politics”. Our lives & country have been seriously exposed under tRump. tRump supporters and a failed “Repugnant” Party have made our lives dangerous, the country has been corrupted, religion has dictated policy and big corporations have dictated terms. Democrats need to be heard loudly from around the dinner table to Congress.I struggle to find answers on how to handle the misinformed, the ignorant, the racists ,the conspirators but I find that calmly addressing health costs and the living costs is often a way of taking the “heat “ out of some misguided tRump supporters. I also think that politicians unwisely speak to masses of people in terms that are far too general and impersonal . I think a better strategy for them is that when they speak at rallies, via the media or press statements they should take an intimate approach and directly talk ,as if they are having an actual conversation(ie: around the kitchen table) with individuals on issues like health, social issues,wages etc. people react better when you relate directly to “their” personal fears. Biden uses this strategy regularly, and it has a positive effect.
I agree that the old way of doing things doesn't apply anymore. I actually think it would be impossible for me to engage with someone superficially, knowing they somehow believe my very nature is mockable. I need to engage with that directly. Or, not be in a situation where I have to choose to engage or not engage. Silence for the sake of politeness feels like a relic of the past.
The city of Jackson definitely has been hit hard economically. Although luckily it's a democratic majority unlike the rest of the county. But the public schools have been hit hard due to this whole defunding through the voucher system set up by that prick John Engler. They were even pushing abstinence only education back when I was in high school during the mid-90s with videos that starred Kirk Cameron and that prick from focus on the family. Of course a lot of us students at Jackson High weren't falling for that BS.
I was raised white evangelical. My extended family is full of Trump supporting, hard-right white GOPers. They are quietly bigoted; openly sexist, anti-Gay, etc. I don't think they can be "deprogrammed." They know I disagree with them, but we don't pick fights with each other and live across the country from each other, so I don't see them much. I think a better use of time and effort is to seek to engage and build a community with people who have been marginalized or disengaged, but who are open to change. White evangelicals/Trumpism is a very sick culture that is rarely changed. We just have to organize outside of them.
There will always be racists and xenophobes. People prone to hatred of anyone not like them and their group of like-minded people.
However, I do think the minds of a great many of them could be changed if this country could get progressive socialist programs and policies implemented. Once people got used to them and comfortable with having free preventative healthcare, free education, affordable shelter, etc. their minds about the left will start to shift. Look at Obamacare. Now that people have had it for a few years, they like it and don't want it to go away. The same with Medicare and Social Security. Republicans have been trying to kill those programs for years and have been unsuccessful.
Michelangelo, I think you mentioned recently about the need for progressive radio stations around the rural areas of the country. In Nebraska, where I'm from, there is nothing but right-wing shit on the AM dial. If progressive radio stations could get in there, it would begin to change some minds. The same with TV. Corporate sponsored TV (whether liberal or not) has always fought against democratic socialism, because it would directly affect their bottom line.
I don't know whether to be optimistic or pessimistic about this country. Every time I begin to get hopeful, America/Americans disappoint me.
Yes, I had Thom Hartman on my program, who hosts the show before me on SiriusXM and he is on many terrestrial radio stations, but again, to your point, that is dominated by right-wing radio. Thom made a great case for why Dems need to embrace progressive radio. Here's the article.
I wish I could tie Nancy Pelosi to a chair for a day and make her listen to Progress radio. That woman infuriates me, he impeachment was so half ass, she could've and should've added so much more to the list, if anything to have it documented and to show that the gop was ok with not following the nepotism rules or the emoluments clause. She should be impeaching trump again right now I don't care if he leaves office tomorrow, this shit needs to be documented and shown that the Dems did the right thing they didn't just sit back and do nothing. I don't trust for 1 minutes that Pelolsi will even investigate or go after trump once he leaves office, and that would be a HUGE mistakes. Not only does it set the tone that the Dems are spineless, it says to the next trump wanna be that its ok to break all the rules and burn the house down. We all need to call Pelosi and the Biden team on a regular basis and insist they follow through with exposing trumps crimes and ALL of those who went along with him, like Pompeo and Jared Kutchner. Trumps kids must be gone after, they put themselves into this, working for trump in the White House, they are all wrapped up in this mess. I hate that Nancy is Speaker again, what a major disappointment that is, her mindset it not where we need her to be, she is living in the past and playing politics like they did in the past and its failing us. If the Dems don't go after trump, I am going to register as an Independent and be done with the Dem party.
When Barack Obama was president, I felt like we had turned a corner in this country. I couldn't have been more wrong. The awful, hateful, ignorant statements from the Magats and Republicans in my life have only gotten worse. They are divorced from reality. In order to see my granddaughters on the day after Christmas, and still stay safe by being outside, I had to stare at my son-in-law's Trump 2020 flag that he proudly displays in his back yard. Luckily, the 'stars and bars' Confederate flag was inside the garage. It physically pains me that he probably rides around with those stupid ass flags flying from the back of his truck. It breaks my heart that these beautiful girls are having their minds warped by this cult. As other readers and Sirius XM listeners have said, there is no middle ground, there is no discussion or acknowledgment of facts. This grandma knows when to shut her mouth and smile, but every day I feel my daughter is turning into a stranger and my granddaughters will pay the price. I don't understand it. What do they think Trump will do for them??
My heart goes out to you. Having to watch that and not do anything about it. Let's hope those girls grow up in the world we're now reclaiming, now steering back, and see the light. Youth has a way of waking up and rebelling against what is just not normal and is stifling.
I'm so sorry you have to tolerate the pain of that ugly knowledge in order to see your grandkids. I hope this fades without becoming a larger emotional war for you.
Luckily I don't have to interact with any of the Drumpf cult lately. Frankly, I'll have a nice swear-filled argument ready with them if they ever mention his name. It's impossible for me to be compassionate and understanding to people who follow this scumbag. I'll have a conversation with those folks someday if they ever pull their heads out of their ass.
I know some can be deprogrammed but I think it is a small minority. I am thinking of people like David Weissman, @davidmweissman, whom I follow on Twitter. He was a diehard MAGA in 2015 and 2016 but has since seen the light. I think some are young enough that they were caught up in the pro-tRump "movement" but later open their eyes if there is some independent thought in them. I have seen a few other examples. On the other hand, people like the husband of my niece in Dallas are hard-core QAnon/other conspiracy theorists and can't be reached. Their brains are soaking in anger and paranoia and have been for years. So, the bottom line is in order for me to try to reach out to them I would have to see some small glimmer of independent thought or openness to facts which most of them do not have.
The cult supporters of this failed president should “pray” that the new administration will include, in any new national health plan, a government funded long term mental therapy session policy to deprogram these misled and dangerous people . After being scammed out of funds by their despicable leader they wouldn’t be in a position to pay for long term medical assistance. I say this with “tongue in cheek”. Will be interesting to see what percentage of these “suckers & losers” will admit their folly, and seek assistance.
I know a few who are Trumpers. I don’t engage with them because they are ignorant about politics and history. They are just uneducated on the subjects. Why bother trying to explain anything to them. It’s just frustrating and I need them in my life for specific reasons. I think it’s funny that they want the $2000, but don’t see it as a socialist program. One of them posted a Meme of all the Democratic Socialist Country’s that pay their citizens monthly financial help, then scream that Dems are socialist commies. 😂😂🤣
I cut off any cult45 members a few years ago. I am lucky I don't really have many friends who were supporters. There are unfortunately ones I have to work with, but I am fortunate to work from home now so don't have to deal with them directly.
It will be interesting post pandemic when we are socializing again if the supporters will be so obvious- will they still be wearing the hat? Will they still have their flags displayed on their trucks and homes? Right now with these displays I know who to avoid ...
First off, a Happy and especially Healthy New Year to all. Glad to see '20 almost in the rear-view mirror.
My Mother-in-Law and her husband are "on the other side". We came into each other's lives 32 years ago, she is Grandmother to my child. We learned a very long time ago to "never discuss politics". Once she made the mistake of criticizing the educational system, and I didn't let it pass without a challenge, which ended with, "That's why we shouldn't discuss politics." So, we don't. But, she's a devout Christian living in a rural part of Southern California that over the decades has become an ex-urb of Los Angeles. Anyway, a working class, Conservative, Christian area in the High Desert. Which brings us to today: she told my wife a couple of weeks ago that she "will never accept Biden as legitimate." JFC! She also said that she's afraid if he gets in that we'll become "a Socialist country." Months ago my wife challenged her over the "Socialism" canard with, "Oh, so you don't want your Medicare or your Social Security?" Stopped her dead in her tracks. Now get this: her church, where she teaches Bible study, was closed for many months, but holding drive-in services. Then, a couple of months ago, she texted me while I was working out-of-town (after I had been pandemic-unemployed for 4 1/2 months), saying that she was holding Bible study IN HER HOME, max of 10 people, and that they wore their masks ON THE WAY OVER but TOOK THEM OFF ONCE "SOCIALLY DISTANT". It took me 2 hours to decide to set her straight, I told her that since she was having people in her home, they MUST KEEP THEIR MASKS ON WHEN INSIDE. She wrote me back that "they're all from good families and they wear their masks when out at the grocery, and there haven't been any positive cases in 6 months" in her city. That's when we decided that we will not be visiting in her home during the pandemic. So, 10 days ago we met 1/2 way at a park, sat at different picnic tables, had a meal that we brought, and exchanged bags of gifts for Christmas later. No, I won't be "discussing politics" with her. It's a constant annoyance and the only consolation is knowing that here in California her vote doesn't mean shit, for president, anyway. Yeah, she gets a Rethug congressman, but we get the two senators and the president. We get along just fine so long as we avoid politics. Here's a Wapo story on the hospital that's less than a mile from my MiL's house, we have to drive past it to get to her: https://apple.news/AikyOEJx9QwWWWu4z_ioccQ. My MiL said that "They got a lot of it wrong." It's very frustrating but we keep the peace and have for 3 decades.
Be safe everyone. Be vigilant. I'm afraid it will be getting even worse in another week or two with the Christmas surge, and the hospital ICU's here in L.A. are already at 0% capacity.
Thank you for all that you do, Michelangelo, including for challenging the Trumpists on the air, and for providing this forum. You are a beacon of sanity and rational discourse.
Thank you Scott! That is some major distortion and denial. I'm glad you did what you could but yes, in the end, you have to preserve your own health and well-being.
Michaelangelo Happy New Year to you and your family! I think that the numbers supporting Cheetolini will drop back to that historic 20-25% range from before this election. Whether it is worth the effort that will depend on the person. My cousin has not spoken to me since I voted for Barack in '08 and I am fine with that!
Happy New Year! I tend to agree that many will fade into the woodwork, or go back to being underground. We just have to be on guard about domestic terror.
I cut off communication with a former co-worker when I found out she was a Trump supporter. And I was confused since she is from Guatemala. As an African-American woman with friends and family who are LGBTQ, I will not reach out. Why should I have to reach out and understand people who define me as 3/5ths of a human being? Why should I try to persuade a bigot who believes in abusive conversion therapy for LGBTQ? Those people have zero respect for others so they do not deserve my understanding nor accommodation of their hatred.
They prey upon people's religious faith and lack of understanding of politics, at a time when there's so much distrust. But if this person can't see how Trump is harming people of color it's hard to convince her.
I had a heated conversation with my father a few months ago and told him I did not want to hear anything that he heard on FOX news anymore and that it was damaging my opinion of his character. He was pretty offended but fortunately he stayed in the conversation long enough to get to what is important about our relationship. I didn't change his mind and it still bothers me that he is ok with bigotry, but he has stopped mentioning conspiracy theories to me.
As for strangers it's a hard no for me to engage in deprogramming trump supporters. They are not acting in good faith and their arguments are not based in reality.
Also Biden is pretty out of touch to call for unity. I refuse to be unified with racists, fascists and bigots who have spent 4 years inciting and engaging in violence towards myself and the people I care about. There is no circumstance that these people and their behavior should be normalized.
One thing I have learned about these people after studying them for 4 years is they actually do care what we think of them. They can be shamed and made to feel unwelcome and if enough people in a community push back at them they become cowards. So there are ways of dealing with them and discouraging their worst behavior.
Sorry about your father but actually I think you handled it well and drew the line. As for the strangers I am happy to engage and have conversation but also happy to tell them to go to hell when they lose it.
I have a dear friend who is a Trump lover. He is older than me. (63 and I’m 35.) He doesn’t like talking politics to friends aside from the occasional ribbing, which is fine by me. Frankly, it spares me the headache.
The only time I was ever really annoyed by his politics was this past summer as a passenger aboard my boat on an inland lake 35-miles NW of Milwaukee in red-hot Washington Co. We just so happened to be out on a beautiful afternoon in the midst of one of the infamous Trump boat parades. This one was relatively bridled—no capsizings, sinkings or other maelstrom—just a lot of hootin’ and a hollerin’ and daytime fireworks, of all things, amongst the comically large MAGA flags flying off the ass ends (technically, nautically, sterns) of their boats. I like boats that don’t sink, believe me!
Anyway, just the near physical presence of these fellow Trumpers triggered dear Rick. It’s like he became possessed—grabbed my portable speaker and started blaring country music, and chanting as part of the aforementioned hootenanny from afar (I maintained our boat at a safe and healthy distance, upwind)… My partner purchased a Biden flag right then and there.
The hive mentality of these creatures is incredible. They really are a “basket of deplorables.” I will never tell them such because they twistedly embrace it. I am just fortunate Rick isn’t on any forms of social media to further enhance the delusions, otherwise I would have to resort to Trump-like nicknaming and refer to him as bat-sh!t Rick! SAD.
Wow, Danny. That is an extraordinary story. It’s like a chip in his brain drew him, couldn’t control himself . It’s rude and arrogant to his host but he didn’t care. It was all about the cult.
"The silicon chip inside her head / Gets switched to overload" -- The Boomtown Rats
Just sittin' here admiring Danny's use of one of my favorite words, "maelstrom"...
I will definitely speak with MAGAts. I'm related to some and many are good friends despite their support of treason. I may just call them at Midnight, Jan. 20, I am postponing celebrating New Years Eve until the 19th, to wish them a Happy New Administration!
Me too, the real New Year starts 1/20
I had an annual dermatologist appointment last week. While in the waiting room fully masked , a blonde haired middle aged woman patient arrived decked out in full MAGA regalia, hat, mask(“Gays for Trump”),a sweat shirt emblazoned with “Make America Great Again”, white sweat pants printed with tRump’s mug shot, and her large bag was also MAGA . She was on her phone talking and I noted that she had a strong Dutch or German accent. When I left my appointment, I noticed that she was getting into her car, which again was fitted all over with MAGA paraphernalia. I suggest she may never “recover” from whatever mental disturbance motivates her.
Wow, now that is a cult. That is her entire identity right there, her fashion, everything. In a way though, it could almost work like a fad -- in one day, out the other. Let's hope.
Now that's both sad and funny as to her MAGA attire.
I suspect you may be correct. I can't imagine there's a cure for this sort of thing. It's a very disappointing dytopia.
This is a huge issue for me, especially heading into 2021. It's likely my husband and I will be leaving California in a few months. We're both from the Midwest but have been here for more than half our lives. Our likely destination is Michigan, my birthplace. This will provide us a built-in web of community right off the bat but will also come with challenges since we'll suddenly be near people who still support the republican party. One of these is my aunt. She's not a lot older than I am, and when I was younger, we sometimes hung out together. I especially remember having a great time seeing Queen with her in 1982 (I don't care what anyone says, I liked the Hot Space album!). She's always been "grumpy", and back in the Obama era I heard rumors she "liked the tea party". But in my family, you avoid these subjects because there is supposed to be nothing that would make you turn your back on family or friends. My father's brothers, for example, are pretty racist. My parents will still drive many hours to attend family reunions, and their solution to the racism is to "leave the room if they start talking like that". My parents are dyed in the wool liberal democrats who accepted me as gay when I came out to them at 15, and transgender later. They are good people, but I don't agree with their approach to this issue.
Fast forward to today, as I lurk on my aunt's Twitter feed. She follows all the worst people, and she "likes" lots of awful tweets, including transphobic ones. When we move back to Michigan there will be an expectation that we spend time with her. I see no point in that, and I have to decide how to handle it. I can certainly look her in the eye, show her the screenshots of the tweets she seems to approve of, and ask her why. But do I even want to waste the energy on that? I'm especially sad that my existence in her life doesn't have enough effect on her to prevent this sickness. I'm in no mood to try to help deprogram her. I've spent my whole life fighting ignorance and I don't feel the need at my age to fight it within my own family, people who are supposed to love me. I'm also angry that the stand I take with her will likely impact my relationships to my mom & dad. That just makes me angrier at her.
This is a very longwinded way of saying no...I will not be welcoming people who currently support Trump/republicans into my life. I want to concentrate my energies on people and projects where my passion and hard work are deserved, and not sacrificed just because we happen to share a family tree or a friendship in the past.
Daya, are glad going there to visit family or do one of you have a temporary job? Anyway, it's that's a good resolution. We can't put up with people who promote this crap -- unless they're a) respectful and b) they seeming willing to change. I can understand people being polite or mildly tolerant with family. But if there's no change possible I can't see engaging.
My husband's job here in Silicon Valley has been our primary source of income for almost 20 years. He works for a NASA contractor, which meant we needed to stay here (the in-person job has been at Ames Research in Mountain View). He's been working remotely since March and a few months ago his job was cut in half. He's got some more temporary remote work to allow us to stay through the winter, but once this work comes to an end, we feel we should be living somewhere that's not one of the most expensive places to be. It just feels like it's time to pack it in and say goodbye to California, as many of our friends already have.
We literally could move anywhere, but we're zeroing in on Michigan for our new home. I never thought I would be returning to that area...but so many of our lives have taken an unexpected right turn. All bets are off at this point.
The thought of moving from the area after 33+ years is overwhelming, but I'm trying to see it as a later-in-life adventure.
Regarding my aunt, perhaps I'm being too strict to say I don't want to be around her at all. The fact is, she doesn't talk about her political views...ever...which is why it has taken this long to realize where she stands. By the time we get to Michigan later this year, I suppose EVERYthing may feel different. But this topic is currently taking up a lot of my brainspace right now, and is a blazing furnace for some funky anxiety!
sorry, i botched my question but you got -- wanted to know if you were just visiting or looking to relocate. Thanks!
Oh my gosh YES! We have been fully affected by the smoke for the past couple years. We sit in a valley and in 2020 there were fires on most sides. We've now become used to checking the AQI (air quality index) with an app before leaving the house. And it appears this will be an ongoing issue every year. So absolutely...getting away from that will be a "glass half full" thing.
Thank you for that reminder!!
Luckily there are quite a few LGBTQ+ friendly cities/towns in Michigan to visit in case your family gets on your nerves. Even though the ScAmway/DeVos loving GOPer pricks in the state have turned it into Michissippi. I'm originally from this rough city in Michigan known as Jackson. A place which has as many bars as their are churches, not to mention that many jails and a maximum security prison are nearby. Wish I had your compassion, because I tend to shoot my mouth off and say horrible things about their orange lord and savior if any family member said anything positive about him.
My immediate family is in Metro Detroit. We certainly have an eye toward cities like Ferndale or Royal Oak as LGBT-friendly. Although I like the idea of landing in Detroit proper. I know of Jackson. My high school girlfriend had family there.
I would also take the opportunity to sound off if anyone around me spoke in a positive way about Trump or republicans in general. My issue is KNOWING someone feels that way and being expected to ignore it in order to maintain peace. I mean...peace at what cost?!?!?!
I knew this Trump cult was coming a long time ago after the whole Waco raid, and the gun-nut militia whackos that resulted from it. They were amalgamated into the Republican's southern strategy and now we have all this white right-wing terrorism resulting from it.
I truly believe that we can no longer stick to the old adage” we don’t talk about religion or politics”. Our lives & country have been seriously exposed under tRump. tRump supporters and a failed “Repugnant” Party have made our lives dangerous, the country has been corrupted, religion has dictated policy and big corporations have dictated terms. Democrats need to be heard loudly from around the dinner table to Congress.I struggle to find answers on how to handle the misinformed, the ignorant, the racists ,the conspirators but I find that calmly addressing health costs and the living costs is often a way of taking the “heat “ out of some misguided tRump supporters. I also think that politicians unwisely speak to masses of people in terms that are far too general and impersonal . I think a better strategy for them is that when they speak at rallies, via the media or press statements they should take an intimate approach and directly talk ,as if they are having an actual conversation(ie: around the kitchen table) with individuals on issues like health, social issues,wages etc. people react better when you relate directly to “their” personal fears. Biden uses this strategy regularly, and it has a positive effect.
I agree that the old way of doing things doesn't apply anymore. I actually think it would be impossible for me to engage with someone superficially, knowing they somehow believe my very nature is mockable. I need to engage with that directly. Or, not be in a situation where I have to choose to engage or not engage. Silence for the sake of politeness feels like a relic of the past.
The city of Jackson definitely has been hit hard economically. Although luckily it's a democratic majority unlike the rest of the county. But the public schools have been hit hard due to this whole defunding through the voucher system set up by that prick John Engler. They were even pushing abstinence only education back when I was in high school during the mid-90s with videos that starred Kirk Cameron and that prick from focus on the family. Of course a lot of us students at Jackson High weren't falling for that BS.
I was raised white evangelical. My extended family is full of Trump supporting, hard-right white GOPers. They are quietly bigoted; openly sexist, anti-Gay, etc. I don't think they can be "deprogrammed." They know I disagree with them, but we don't pick fights with each other and live across the country from each other, so I don't see them much. I think a better use of time and effort is to seek to engage and build a community with people who have been marginalized or disengaged, but who are open to change. White evangelicals/Trumpism is a very sick culture that is rarely changed. We just have to organize outside of them.
There will always be racists and xenophobes. People prone to hatred of anyone not like them and their group of like-minded people.
However, I do think the minds of a great many of them could be changed if this country could get progressive socialist programs and policies implemented. Once people got used to them and comfortable with having free preventative healthcare, free education, affordable shelter, etc. their minds about the left will start to shift. Look at Obamacare. Now that people have had it for a few years, they like it and don't want it to go away. The same with Medicare and Social Security. Republicans have been trying to kill those programs for years and have been unsuccessful.
Michelangelo, I think you mentioned recently about the need for progressive radio stations around the rural areas of the country. In Nebraska, where I'm from, there is nothing but right-wing shit on the AM dial. If progressive radio stations could get in there, it would begin to change some minds. The same with TV. Corporate sponsored TV (whether liberal or not) has always fought against democratic socialism, because it would directly affect their bottom line.
I don't know whether to be optimistic or pessimistic about this country. Every time I begin to get hopeful, America/Americans disappoint me.
Yes, I had Thom Hartman on my program, who hosts the show before me on SiriusXM and he is on many terrestrial radio stations, but again, to your point, that is dominated by right-wing radio. Thom made a great case for why Dems need to embrace progressive radio. Here's the article.
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/conservative-talk-radio/
I listen to you and Thom and Dean all the time. We need more people like you to spread the word all over the country!
I wish I could tie Nancy Pelosi to a chair for a day and make her listen to Progress radio. That woman infuriates me, he impeachment was so half ass, she could've and should've added so much more to the list, if anything to have it documented and to show that the gop was ok with not following the nepotism rules or the emoluments clause. She should be impeaching trump again right now I don't care if he leaves office tomorrow, this shit needs to be documented and shown that the Dems did the right thing they didn't just sit back and do nothing. I don't trust for 1 minutes that Pelolsi will even investigate or go after trump once he leaves office, and that would be a HUGE mistakes. Not only does it set the tone that the Dems are spineless, it says to the next trump wanna be that its ok to break all the rules and burn the house down. We all need to call Pelosi and the Biden team on a regular basis and insist they follow through with exposing trumps crimes and ALL of those who went along with him, like Pompeo and Jared Kutchner. Trumps kids must be gone after, they put themselves into this, working for trump in the White House, they are all wrapped up in this mess. I hate that Nancy is Speaker again, what a major disappointment that is, her mindset it not where we need her to be, she is living in the past and playing politics like they did in the past and its failing us. If the Dems don't go after trump, I am going to register as an Independent and be done with the Dem party.
I totally agree Joanne. I just recently switched from Democrat to Independent. I'm a proud Democratic Socialist at heart.
Great article, by the way.
You’re totally right about Obamacare.
When Barack Obama was president, I felt like we had turned a corner in this country. I couldn't have been more wrong. The awful, hateful, ignorant statements from the Magats and Republicans in my life have only gotten worse. They are divorced from reality. In order to see my granddaughters on the day after Christmas, and still stay safe by being outside, I had to stare at my son-in-law's Trump 2020 flag that he proudly displays in his back yard. Luckily, the 'stars and bars' Confederate flag was inside the garage. It physically pains me that he probably rides around with those stupid ass flags flying from the back of his truck. It breaks my heart that these beautiful girls are having their minds warped by this cult. As other readers and Sirius XM listeners have said, there is no middle ground, there is no discussion or acknowledgment of facts. This grandma knows when to shut her mouth and smile, but every day I feel my daughter is turning into a stranger and my granddaughters will pay the price. I don't understand it. What do they think Trump will do for them??
My heart goes out to you. Having to watch that and not do anything about it. Let's hope those girls grow up in the world we're now reclaiming, now steering back, and see the light. Youth has a way of waking up and rebelling against what is just not normal and is stifling.
I'm so sorry you have to tolerate the pain of that ugly knowledge in order to see your grandkids. I hope this fades without becoming a larger emotional war for you.
Luckily I don't have to interact with any of the Drumpf cult lately. Frankly, I'll have a nice swear-filled argument ready with them if they ever mention his name. It's impossible for me to be compassionate and understanding to people who follow this scumbag. I'll have a conversation with those folks someday if they ever pull their heads out of their ass.
I know some can be deprogrammed but I think it is a small minority. I am thinking of people like David Weissman, @davidmweissman, whom I follow on Twitter. He was a diehard MAGA in 2015 and 2016 but has since seen the light. I think some are young enough that they were caught up in the pro-tRump "movement" but later open their eyes if there is some independent thought in them. I have seen a few other examples. On the other hand, people like the husband of my niece in Dallas are hard-core QAnon/other conspiracy theorists and can't be reached. Their brains are soaking in anger and paranoia and have been for years. So, the bottom line is in order for me to try to reach out to them I would have to see some small glimmer of independent thought or openness to facts which most of them do not have.
The cult supporters of this failed president should “pray” that the new administration will include, in any new national health plan, a government funded long term mental therapy session policy to deprogram these misled and dangerous people . After being scammed out of funds by their despicable leader they wouldn’t be in a position to pay for long term medical assistance. I say this with “tongue in cheek”. Will be interesting to see what percentage of these “suckers & losers” will admit their folly, and seek assistance.
I know a few who are Trumpers. I don’t engage with them because they are ignorant about politics and history. They are just uneducated on the subjects. Why bother trying to explain anything to them. It’s just frustrating and I need them in my life for specific reasons. I think it’s funny that they want the $2000, but don’t see it as a socialist program. One of them posted a Meme of all the Democratic Socialist Country’s that pay their citizens monthly financial help, then scream that Dems are socialist commies. 😂😂🤣
I cut off any cult45 members a few years ago. I am lucky I don't really have many friends who were supporters. There are unfortunately ones I have to work with, but I am fortunate to work from home now so don't have to deal with them directly.
It will be interesting post pandemic when we are socializing again if the supporters will be so obvious- will they still be wearing the hat? Will they still have their flags displayed on their trucks and homes? Right now with these displays I know who to avoid ...
First off, a Happy and especially Healthy New Year to all. Glad to see '20 almost in the rear-view mirror.
My Mother-in-Law and her husband are "on the other side". We came into each other's lives 32 years ago, she is Grandmother to my child. We learned a very long time ago to "never discuss politics". Once she made the mistake of criticizing the educational system, and I didn't let it pass without a challenge, which ended with, "That's why we shouldn't discuss politics." So, we don't. But, she's a devout Christian living in a rural part of Southern California that over the decades has become an ex-urb of Los Angeles. Anyway, a working class, Conservative, Christian area in the High Desert. Which brings us to today: she told my wife a couple of weeks ago that she "will never accept Biden as legitimate." JFC! She also said that she's afraid if he gets in that we'll become "a Socialist country." Months ago my wife challenged her over the "Socialism" canard with, "Oh, so you don't want your Medicare or your Social Security?" Stopped her dead in her tracks. Now get this: her church, where she teaches Bible study, was closed for many months, but holding drive-in services. Then, a couple of months ago, she texted me while I was working out-of-town (after I had been pandemic-unemployed for 4 1/2 months), saying that she was holding Bible study IN HER HOME, max of 10 people, and that they wore their masks ON THE WAY OVER but TOOK THEM OFF ONCE "SOCIALLY DISTANT". It took me 2 hours to decide to set her straight, I told her that since she was having people in her home, they MUST KEEP THEIR MASKS ON WHEN INSIDE. She wrote me back that "they're all from good families and they wear their masks when out at the grocery, and there haven't been any positive cases in 6 months" in her city. That's when we decided that we will not be visiting in her home during the pandemic. So, 10 days ago we met 1/2 way at a park, sat at different picnic tables, had a meal that we brought, and exchanged bags of gifts for Christmas later. No, I won't be "discussing politics" with her. It's a constant annoyance and the only consolation is knowing that here in California her vote doesn't mean shit, for president, anyway. Yeah, she gets a Rethug congressman, but we get the two senators and the president. We get along just fine so long as we avoid politics. Here's a Wapo story on the hospital that's less than a mile from my MiL's house, we have to drive past it to get to her: https://apple.news/AikyOEJx9QwWWWu4z_ioccQ. My MiL said that "They got a lot of it wrong." It's very frustrating but we keep the peace and have for 3 decades.
Be safe everyone. Be vigilant. I'm afraid it will be getting even worse in another week or two with the Christmas surge, and the hospital ICU's here in L.A. are already at 0% capacity.
Thank you for all that you do, Michelangelo, including for challenging the Trumpists on the air, and for providing this forum. You are a beacon of sanity and rational discourse.
Thank you Scott! That is some major distortion and denial. I'm glad you did what you could but yes, in the end, you have to preserve your own health and well-being.
Michaelangelo Happy New Year to you and your family! I think that the numbers supporting Cheetolini will drop back to that historic 20-25% range from before this election. Whether it is worth the effort that will depend on the person. My cousin has not spoken to me since I voted for Barack in '08 and I am fine with that!
Happy New Year! I tend to agree that many will fade into the woodwork, or go back to being underground. We just have to be on guard about domestic terror.
Absolutely!